Buy new zealand made. ?

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yvon
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Buy new zealand made. ?

Postby yvon » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:41 pm

How much of the stuff you buy is made in new zealand? And do you even take this into consideration when making a purchase?


Remember in the '80's there was a "buy new zealand made" campaign? I heard talk recently about bringing it back, and it got me to thinking about all the imported $2 shop crap that is ending up in landfills, all the fuel it takes to bring that crap over the ocean so that it can sit in the ground poisoning us. Sure, there are some things you can only get from overseas, but if faced with a choice, would you choose New Zealand made?

(Of course, the next argument is "what constitutes New Zealand made?" when so much of the raw materials that go to make New Zealand made products, actually come from off-shore anyway.)
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Postby Jared.com » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:47 pm

I buy what I need and then whatever I want with the money left over. I don't care if it is made in New Zealand or China, if it is up to my standards and I have enough money, i'll buy it.

If I were to choose between a T-shirt made in New Zealand and a T-shirt made in China, it would depend on price and quality. Obviously labour costs means that a t-shrit made in china will always be cheaper but if it is crap then i'd be prepared to fork out more for the one made in New Zealand (provided I actually like the design ;-)).

No-one should be forcing us to buy locally made products. I think the greens run a similar campaign.
dclxvi wrote:HAHAHA hey guess what?

that's never going to happen. things like scrumpy and cody's 12%ers always get in the way

Future Shock

Postby Future Shock » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:13 pm

your right jared and nobody should be forced to work in a sweatshop, support for such products supports the problem.

I'm not saying your bad but perhaps I don't agree with your motives.

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Postby Ph!1 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:07 pm

i generally go for quality, but often that doesnt mean NZmade.

but i only steal from the $2 shop

except the TGA one, cos my mates dad owns it.

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Postby Jared.com » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:19 pm

Buying In wrote:your right jared and nobody should be forced to work in a sweatshop, support for such products supports the problem.

I'm not saying your bad but perhaps I don't agree with your motives.


You're right, no-one should be forced to work there, but they should still be allowed the option if they agree to work there on their own accord.
dclxvi wrote:HAHAHA hey guess what?

that's never going to happen. things like scrumpy and cody's 12%ers always get in the way

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haiku terror shades
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Postby haiku terror shades » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:43 pm

i bought a pair of NZ made sneakers the other week - anyone remember commandos? you can still buy them but the only place in Auckland that stocks adult sizes is the Para rubber out in the industrial park in Mt Roskill.

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Postby Ph!1 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:34 pm

my shoes are australian made, altho, possibly they are made here, its an aussie company tho.....

i buy socks and underwear from the warehouse, thats my biggest clothing sin.

mostly i get other stuff from bands, music shops, the net, secondhand shops, and recently, and for the first time in YEARS from a chain store.

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Postby akaxo » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:10 am

i've always had problems with the buy nz made thing. it's always struck me as a bit nationalistic. what makes a kiwi capitalist any better than one from overseas? there's a lot more impt things to me than the country of origin for the goods. like trying to by fair traded where ever possible. and what the company who's profiting from my purchase does with that money. any company that is tied up with the israeli state and supports them is right at the top of my boycott list for example.

i'll avoid american made as much as possible though. and always buy this great organic fair trade cuban coffee. i'd rather buy products from cuba, or venezuela say, than help some rich white kiwi get richer.
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Postby chrisbucks » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:07 pm

Buying In wrote:your right jared and nobody should be forced to work in a sweatshop, support for such products supports the problem.

I'm not saying your bad but perhaps I don't agree with your motives.


You're assuming that there are no sweat shops in New Zealand then? ie: you like to think your own shit dont stink?


Moral questions are silly because they're entirely relative:

would you buy a chinese sweatshop shirt or would you buy an NZ sweatshop shirt?

would you buy an NZ sweatshop shirt?
or a No-Sweat branded shirt from indonesia?

nationalism over humanity?
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Postby haiku terror shades » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:58 pm

Akaxo wrote:i've always had problems with the buy nz made thing. it's always struck me as a bit nationalistic. what makes a kiwi capitalist any better than one from overseas?


the two biggies are -

1) because the money doesn't leave the economy. everytime you buy something made offshore x amount of what you paid leaves the country - with more and more product being imported this creates what is called a trade deficit. trade deficit bad.

2) because new zealand is in the middle of the pacific - getting any product here from anywhere else costs in terms of fossil fuels.


i think the kiwi made thing works far more as a campaign of self interest than one of nationalism.

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Postby haiku terror shades » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:03 pm

chrisbucks wrote:""


there aren't any sweatshops making shirts in new zealand because they can not compete with the cheaper asian labour pool, though some local brands have moved production to fiji as a preference.

seriously, start naming brands that actually make their shirts here - i dare ya. i don't think i could name more than a half dozen shoe brands that still make shoes here.

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Postby akaxo » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:28 pm

Real Ultimate Shades wrote:1) because the money doesn't leave the economy. everytime you buy something made offshore x amount of what you paid leaves the country - with more and more product being imported this creates what is called a trade deficit. trade deficit bad.


bad for who? kiwis who want as much wealth as they can get their hands on? personally i see your point above as a reason to buy goods from developing countries over new zealand made goods as it would help the transference of wealth from the rich to poor on a global scale. which has got to be a good thing if you look at a broader picture than what is just good for nz business. but then again i do think there are far more impt things than peoples self interest :wink:
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Postby haiku terror shades » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:38 pm

hmm, true?

i question that the ongoing trade deficit seems to be concurrent with an increase in the gap betwix rich and poor in this country. the importers are getting fat on profits while *paying peanuts to developing countries maybe?

(*obviously not trade aid, but pretty much everyone else is?)

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Postby yvon » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:37 pm

Real Ultimate Shades wrote:i bought a pair of NZ made sneakers the other week - anyone remember commandos? you can still buy them but the only place in Auckland that stocks adult sizes is the Para rubber out in the industrial park in Mt Roskill.


Oh sweet commando M's. I did the mission to Mt Roskill for a pair about 4 months ago. They get covered in coffee grinds daily and are holding up far better than my chucks, so I'm stoked. :) I stuck some woolen insoles in them and now my feet stay toasty warm too.
***


I wasn't really thinking about fair trade products when I started this thread, since not too much fair trade stuff is available here. Mostly coffee and cocoa? I don't think either of which are grown in NZ anyway. I was more wondering whether anyone thinks about the impact of buying california oranges, or chinese oranges, over nz ones. RC cola over phoenix, and stuff like that. Or whether it's a good idea to go and spend $20 on crap at the $2 shop that won't last. Although I guess people who do that wouldn't be thinking about the environmental impact of their actions anyway.

It's just that there is so much to consider as a consumer these days. Is it organic/geneticly engineered/carcinogenic/free-range/preservative-free/soy-based/sweatshop-made/petroleum-based/tested-on-animals/contain-parabens/destroy-the-ozone-layer/fund-a-war/support-a-third-world-country/blah blah blah blah....
Quite often you end up supporting one cause to the detriment of another.


(On a side note, if you go for quality first (and bugger the morals), how do you know you aren't being sucked in by branding and advertising? It still bugs me that although Heineken and Stella are brewed in NZ now, we are all expected to keep paying the "imported beer" price.)
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Postby chrisbucks » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:24 pm

Real Ultimate Shades wrote:
chrisbucks wrote:""

seriously, start naming brands that actually make their shirts here
\

cloud clothing 8)
‹Rob Anybody› yeh that is an implied threat... an almost threat, god you need to research what a threat is you spinless waterballon man


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Future Shock

Postby Future Shock » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:39 pm

Yes I agree Chris, many people in places like China and India etc are not given real choice, starve or work for fuck all without the freedom to move or to raise a standard of living in countries where govts are not particurly transparent.

I also agree with Akaxo, I am pragmatic and I also agree that brand does not equal quality and the argument about transport/environment etc, I'm no nationalist though I love the land I stand on as it has connection with growing up on it, sorry for being human but I also know it doesn't belong to me but I will protect its resource :wink:

I choose not to try and fuck over others to survive and often those with wealth have it easier than others to do so, how ironic.

do what ya can or your a chump, thats all it comes down to really and nobodys a saint, just think about what you do.

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Postby akaxo » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:50 pm

Real Ultimate Shades wrote:i question that the ongoing trade deficit seems to be concurrent with an increase in the gap betwix rich and poor in this country. the importers are getting fat on profits while *paying peanuts to developing countries maybe?


i was thinking more on a global scale re the rich and poor gap. buying sudanese sunflower seeds for example (as i do from organic co-op here) means some nz$ going to sudan right? sure it contributes to our trade deficit, but if it increases the wealth of that country at the detriment of ours then good thing. they need it more than we do.

not that a few bucks worth of seeds makes piss all difference but
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Postby akaxo » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:16 pm

yvon wrote:I was more wondering whether anyone thinks about the impact of buying california oranges, or chinese oranges, over nz ones. RC cola over phoenix, and stuff like that.

It's just that there is so much to consider as a consumer these days. Is it organic/geneticly engineered/carcinogenic/ free-range/preservative-free/ soy-based/sweatshop-made/petroleum-based/ tested-on-animals/contain-parabens/destroy-the-ozone-layer/ fund-a-war/support-a-third-world-country/ blah blah blah blah....
Quite often you end up supporting one cause to the detriment of another.


personally i'd bever buy californian oranges but i do my best to never buy anything with "made in the usa" on it. chinese ones i would. america is the great satan though and as aus-rotten put it "you don't support your enemy when you're at war"

i used to by phoenix organic juices all the time (the feijoa one :D ) but they got bought out by charlies who are owned by some dickhead rugger player and some fundy christian (or so i was told) so don't now. buggered if cunts like that are going to get a cent off me. them being kiwis doesn't make up for that shit

yep hard to find something that is ethically sweet as on all levels but we can only do our best and everyone can prioritise as they desire. after cutting out non-vegan options i just go for the ones not produced by big multi-nationals if possible. or in america or israel (not that much is made there but a lot of companies go out of their way to support israel). and i think about who owns the shop i'm buying it from. which is why i don't mind paying extra for soy milk at the diary. pak'n'slave don't see my money, sue the lovely indian woman down the road does (she buys it from the wholesaler, not pak'n'slave herself). buying NZ goods over overseas ones doesn't really enter into it for me generally but as far as food goes locally grown organic from a co-op is the best really for all sorts of reasons

i don't avoid GE. if someone imported that scandanavian beer that is proudly made from all GE products i'd probably buy it on principle

it fucks me off how our economic system means the rich get richer nearly everytime we buy something
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Postby Ph!1 » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:33 pm

Akaxo wrote:after cutting out non-vegan options i just go for the ones not produced by big multi-nationals if possible. or in america or israel (not that much is made there but a lot of companies go out of their way to support israel).


the very best hot water solar panels are made in israel, but the second best are made in germany, which pays a weregild to israel on a yearly basis.

i guess thats relevant, since solar water heating is a concern of many.

Future Shock

Postby Future Shock » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 pm

ya can't avoid it all is what I meant and to focus on that is to lose focus, get rid of govt and get rid of the friggin problem or do as a hippy would, live in the bush but then govts are still there who will always try to kick your ass so disempowerment through not supporting them and supporting each other is the only way for them to be made vaccuous and just a mere annoyance rather than dangerous to mosts wellbeing.

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Postby akaxo » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:46 am

Pogue Mahone wrote:the very best hot water solar panels are made in israel, but the second best are made in germany, which pays a weregild to israel on a yearly basis.

i guess thats relevant, since solar water heating is a concern of many.


yeah? thanks. something like that will be one of the first things i'll be investing in when i'm living on my own property again so i'll know to be aware of that one. though i kinda thought i'd just put something together from scratch myself rather than buying a pre-made system but who knows
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Postby haiku terror shades » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:38 pm

yvon wrote:
Real Ultimate Shades wrote:i bought a pair of NZ made sneakers the other week - anyone remember commandos? you can still buy them but the only place in Auckland that stocks adult sizes is the Para rubber out in the industrial park in Mt Roskill.


Oh sweet commando M's. I did the mission to Mt Roskill for a pair about 4 months ago. They get covered in coffee grinds daily and are holding up far better than my chucks, so I'm stoked. :) I stuck some woolen insoles in them and now my feet stay toasty warm too.
***


oh snap - i got wool insoles for mine too!
freaky.

chrisbucks wrote:
Real Ultimate Shades wrote:
chrisbucks wrote:""

seriously, start naming brands that actually make their shirts here
\

cloud clothing 8)


and that would be ...one??

also on the subject of buying imported fruit - i would go for the californian produce over the chinese, i feel kinda more iffy about what kind of pestisides are used and the storage conditions of food coming from china. i try to avoid chinese dry goods too since that time we got a bunch of cornflour that was recalled due to it's lead content.

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Postby Discord » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:10 pm

Hey guys...
Hope this thread is still active, found it whilst googling for Australian made clothing and footwear. My main concern with the majority of the stuff produced in poorer countries is that it is probably done in sweatshops and buying locally made stuff probably (hopefully) isn't. I'm not saying sweatshops don't exist in Aus and NZ, but we do at least have reasonable labour laws compared to other places, especially those with EPZ's (Export Processing Zones - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPZ).
My other, lesser concern that someone already mentioned is the amount of fossil fuels used for importing and exporting... Anyone interested in reading a little about this should check out: http://socialwork.arts.unsw.edu.au/tsw/

Anyways.. i totally failed to find any sneakers made in Aus... All I could find was Ugg boots :/
I did find this: http://www.nosweatstuff.com.au/ site that sells sweatshop free gear in Aus and NZ, but doesn't seem to say where it's made.
Surely these 'Commando' things are for sale in more than one shop??! Can someone post a piccy or something or them plz? :) I'd be willing to by them, even if they're made by sheep-rooters (j/k) :twisted:

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Postby haiku terror shades » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:50 pm

Surely these 'Commando' things are for sale in more than one shop??!


ya'd think so aye? only other place i've seen em was Farmers and they only had kiddie sizes.

i couldn't find any pics on the net either.
took me ages to get a photo up, flat camera batteries :oops:

Image

100% old school. they also come in white.

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Postby Ph!1 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:13 pm

Akaxo wrote:yeah? thanks. something like that will be one of the first things i'll be investing in when i'm living on my own property again so i'll know to be aware of that one. though i kinda thought i'd just put something together from scratch myself rather than buying a pre-made system but who knows

the israeli ones arent sold in NZ anyway, only the chinese knock-offs that havnt been here for more than the 2 years they will probably last.

you can make pretty decent panels yourself, but at the end of the day you end up with something thats not as good for not much cheaper and a lot of hardwork.

having said that, ive seen some good homemade panels, the thing is you will never be able to buy a controller, and frost protection might be a big issue, the only real saving you can make is on install, even at trade prices you cant make anything but the simplest panel for less than the cost of buying them.

if youre real keen to make a solar panel tho il give you any advice you want, but il tell you right now, you need free or cheap copper panels and a pump, cos the new cost of both is the killer.

dont make a panel from steel, seriously. :arrow:

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Postby xCaptainx » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:44 pm

Real Ultimate Shades wrote:
Surely these 'Commando' things are for sale in more than one shop??!


ya'd think so aye? only other place i've seen em was Farmers and they only had kiddie sizes.

i couldn't find any pics on the net either.
took me ages to get a photo up, flat camera batteries :oops:

Image

100% old school. they also come in white.


they look pretty cool. How much are they?

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Postby Trinity » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:35 pm

Commando M's crikey. I used to have rainbow ones, back in the day.

There's a movie called China Blue, which is a doco made in a Chinese factory. Have read/heard about it, sounds fucking full on. I think you should see it, if you have no problem with sweatshop made products. 16 hour days for workers, no pay for months, clothespegs on their eyes so they don't fall asleep (fined for falling asleep). No days off....

I used to work in an Adidas factory in Greymouth in the 80's. It was reasonably payed, 8 hour days, an hour for lunch and 2 tea breaks. It closed down maybe 5 years ago, because manufacturing is now done offshore. That factory employed women in Greymouth for generations.

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yvon
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Postby yvon » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:07 pm

Trinity wrote:Commando M's crikey. I used to have rainbow ones, back in the day.


Wow. I don't remember rainbow ones.

I was sure Commando M's were made by Skellerup, but on the Skellerup website they only show gumboots and workboots. :(
Then I found out they were made by a company called Sandford Industries (Christchurch). Maybe Skellerup only "markets" them. I dunno.

Dischord - I found this report thing on "men’s sports casual footwear " and it has a list of companies In NZ producing footwear that comes under this heading
http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/Page____13461.aspx
The only names I recognised were John Bull and Blundstone, and I didn't think they made sneakers/sports shoes? Dunno.
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yvon
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Postby yvon » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:20 pm

xCaptainx wrote:they look pretty cool. How much are they?


I think around $34? Maybe it was $37. It was a slightly odd amount but it was definitely 30-something. And the woolen innersoles were about $5 from the supermarket. :)

I think Para Rubber Mt Roskill is on Carr Rd? It's the only one in Auckland, definitley. But there is Para Rubber in Christchurch, Dunedin, Hamilton, Rotorua, Tauranga, Palmy and New Plymouth, according to the website.
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Future Shock

Postby Future Shock » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:20 am

Is that why Greymouths aws, maybe the lokal shorthairs could get a job.

We don't need more rubber.

but thanks for heads up list au!


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