What's happening to the rule of law?

Politics and the rest of world's madness all in here!
User avatar
BigNanaJez
Posts: 3150
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:45 pm
Location: Newtown

What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby BigNanaJez » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:52 pm

New Zealand has a major problem and that is that our long held rule of law is falling away.

While the current National government has worked very hard to erode people's rights, it was built on a precedent set by the previous Labour government, thus an independent solution needs to be found.

The link below has a great deal of detail around the governments latest move which is to retrospectively change the law. basically the Police acted illegally, knew so, and now the government will change the law to make what they did, in the past, legal.

http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/ur ... eme-court/

I have a major problem with this. So my ears are open to any opinions/ideas out there.

Awareness is also a problem and I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last ten years. I invite everyone to start a public political conversation this week.

It's pretty much political Fight Club.

User avatar
the croc
Posts: 5772
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:35 pm
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby the croc » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:18 pm

They're chucking it through under urgency too. I would be interested to know how much legislation has been passed under urgency by this government compared to other governments. Seems like they do it a lot.
There's more to life than thrash
So let's get really smashed
and do the heavy head dance

https://www.facebook.com/paekakarikipunkshow/

Red_switch
Posts: 6127
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: mosgiel

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Red_switch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:23 pm

Was it here a while back someone posted a comparison of legislation passed under urgency between nat and the last lab. govt? The difference was heaps.
I think it's lint.

Image

Red_switch
Posts: 6127
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: mosgiel

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Red_switch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:24 pm

I know a few people who complain about govt inflicted shit all the time, yet they'd "rather not" actually discuss politics. WEirdas
I think it's lint.

Image

User avatar
akaxo
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:28 am
Location: antichristchurch

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby akaxo » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:36 pm

the data about the use of urgency is out there croc, shouldn't be hard to find, i've linked to/shown the graphs in other threads here. basically yes they have used it ridiculously more often than previous governments deliberately to bypass the public input and select committee stages. and it's a trend that was well under way before it needing to be used for earthquake related stuff etc so that's no excuse.

i'm fast approaching the conclusion that the majority of new zealanders deserve to get shat on from on high. when polls show that when comparing policies people prefer the left/labour party policies yet when asked who they'd vote for say national because they like key; when policy announcements from left parties get ignored by the media and fluff pieces about what key like's for breakfast and things of the rugby get prominence; kind of doesn't give you much confidence in new zealand society. maybe people need a swift rogering from a police baton to wake the fuck up.

i haven't read all the info on the law change that's happening now so can't really comment on the details yet.

the point about the collusion between the two major parties on significant legislation that erodes long fought for freedoms is relevant and true. realistically the best i think we can hope for to minimise that is a labour/green based coalition with as big a green portion as possible.

BigNanaJez wrote:Awareness is also a problem and I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last thirty years.
can take this back to the neo-lib reforms of the early eighties imo.
We must secure the extinction of all people and no future for any children

User avatar
the croc
Posts: 5772
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:35 pm
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby the croc » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:13 pm

There's more to life than thrash
So let's get really smashed
and do the heavy head dance

https://www.facebook.com/paekakarikipunkshow/

xsfat
Posts: 6249
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:58 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby xsfat » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:05 pm

The best and most detailed commentary:
http://www.laws179.co.nz/2011/09/covert ... overt.html

User avatar
akaxo
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:28 am
Location: antichristchurch

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby akaxo » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:20 pm

yeah what J said
We must secure the extinction of all people and no future for any children

User avatar
Marrow
real poo particles
Posts: 3749
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: lost in the Warp
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Marrow » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:08 pm

for people not following the link
in its first two years National pushed 17 laws through without allowing public submissions - compared to the four or five each term when Labour was in government.
Dead Kid wrote:Just leave your friends at home this time eh... Spelling-Mistake Chris, Hit On All The Moderators Chris, Anti-Social Chris, and I think that's when Make-Every-Thread-Twice-As-Long-As-It-Needs-To-Be Chris showed up. I'm telling you, you've got to sort your foruming out bro
PertHJ wrote:You can't drink your coffee and fuck it too

noteven
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:46 am

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby noteven » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:10 pm

Seems like national's theme is "I do what I want"
I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them. Who are they polling? No one asked my opinion. Pretty bullshit.

User avatar
Marrow
real poo particles
Posts: 3749
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: lost in the Warp
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Marrow » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:49 pm

speak to more white collar middle class professionals, especially ones that don't actually care about politics but 'their workmates told them labour means more benefits' or something
Dead Kid wrote:Just leave your friends at home this time eh... Spelling-Mistake Chris, Hit On All The Moderators Chris, Anti-Social Chris, and I think that's when Make-Every-Thread-Twice-As-Long-As-It-Needs-To-Be Chris showed up. I'm telling you, you've got to sort your foruming out bro
PertHJ wrote:You can't drink your coffee and fuck it too

noteven
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:46 am

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby noteven » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:19 pm

So fucked off at people who are so anti welfare. Sometimes people fall down and need a hand getting back up. Apparently this is a bad thing?

User avatar
Hamtown Dave
Posts: 2099
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Hamtown Dave » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:59 pm

noteven wrote:Seems like national's theme is "I do what I want"
I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them. Who are they polling? No one asked my opinion. Pretty bullshit.


It could be that you've unconsciously weeded national voting types out of your circle of acquaintances. That is extremely excusable.

Rex is ok though.
ONE MAN CREW

noteven
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:46 am

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby noteven » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:08 pm

I have two friends who are studying politics and are young nats and all "national yay!" Almost wanna never speak to them again for this reason alone.

User avatar
akaxo
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:28 am
Location: antichristchurch

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby akaxo » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:33 am

don't blame ya, i'm finishing off a pols degree at the moment and know the type.
We must secure the extinction of all people and no future for any children

subvert
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby subvert » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:06 am

i'm fast approaching the conclusion that the majority of new zealanders deserve to get shat on from on high. when polls show that when comparing policies people prefer the left/labour party policies yet when asked who they'd vote for say national because they like key; when policy announcements from left parties get ignored by the media and fluff pieces about what key like's for breakfast and things of the rugby get prominence; kind of doesn't give you much confidence in new zealand society. maybe people need a swift rogering from a police baton to wake the fuck up.

well said , for fucks sake are people now so numb in the head in this country that they vote a smiling jerk in , instead looking at that parties policies and the wider picture. I used to think people in NZ were smarter than this. I think JK is nothing but a illiterate wanker .

User avatar
Livestock
Posts: 2286
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:00 am
Location: D.C.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Livestock » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:54 am

subvert wrote:I think JK is nothing but a illiterate wanker .


.. but yeah, in all seriousness.. I've got a hunch the reason these retards will get in again (apart from having alot to do with Phil [I have no opinion on anything] Goof)
is actually partly representative/reflective of the middle class racism in NZ.

User avatar
General Mutante
Posts: 9850
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:57 pm
Location: Beyond the Thunderdome...
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby General Mutante » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:22 am

When I worked for Telecom, my main hobby apart from seeing how far I could violate the dress code before the boss cried was taking great pleasure in telling the Young Nat types I worked with that I always vote as far left as possible because I like to see their hard earned tax dollars go to poor people. Used to fuck them off that I'd talk to deros in the smoking area outside too.
Little Miss Twoshoes wrote:Violent period sex is a pretty good indicator that you're into someone, I think

FC wrote:I like that the swearing is removed. That's gangsta.

http://carnival01.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
BigNanaJez
Posts: 3150
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:45 pm
Location: Newtown

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby BigNanaJez » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:15 am

Yes unfortunately the growth of the middle class has created a vacuum between rich and poor. It used to be these people lived on the same street and understood each other, now they don't. The problem with this scenario is that people point the finger at each other, the rich blame the poor and visa versa.

At the very most basic level, I think of the left putting people first and the right putting money first. I think now that more people have money, the more we have people who put money first and thus vote accordingly.

User avatar
NOIDEAWOTEVER
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:04 am
Location: AK Super Shitty

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby NOIDEAWOTEVER » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:26 pm

Terrorism is so 2000's...

User avatar
NOIDEAWOTEVER
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:04 am
Location: AK Super Shitty

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby NOIDEAWOTEVER » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:26 pm

But seriously it's time for the Police to admit they fucked it up and these people are not actually Terrorists. And this Government's George Bush style of dealing with inconvienient laws is very worrying to say the least. I really hope NZ doesn't go down the same road as the US and it's baby brother Australia and use this whole 'War on Terror' bollocks as a convienient way to increase control over people.

Unfortuantly there doesn't seem to be a strong enough political party out there right now to change the Govt anytime soon.

User avatar
toothbrush
Posts: 6996
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:17 pm

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby toothbrush » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm

as much as i hate to admit it, and it is contrary to my actual views and ideals: new zealand needs National to abuse its power, change laws whenever they want, generally fuck over everyone and to have police get away with everything. This is because no one here really does anything about anything except a few people complain and less people do anything about it. If they do this then hopefully more people will start actually giving a shit, stop being pussies and have some interest in and do something about what is going on with the governance of they country they live in and the decisions that are getting made for them.

AKA a wake up call.

User avatar
General Mutante
Posts: 9850
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:57 pm
Location: Beyond the Thunderdome...
Contact:

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby General Mutante » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:56 pm

Plus it would make me fully cream my undies to see Key being helicoptered to safety from the top of an embassy as the peasants revolt.
Little Miss Twoshoes wrote:Violent period sex is a pretty good indicator that you're into someone, I think

FC wrote:I like that the swearing is removed. That's gangsta.

http://carnival01.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
akaxo
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:28 am
Location: antichristchurch

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby akaxo » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:59 pm

General Mutante wrote:Plus it would make me fully cream my undies to see Key being helicoptered to the coast from the top of an embassy as the peasants revolt and dropped from a height onto some rocks.
fixed.
We must secure the extinction of all people and no future for any children

User avatar
Horus
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:58 pm
Location: Blockhouse Bay

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Horus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:34 pm

Why don't we all start referring to Key by his full name (as we do with major "criminals" - or ppl who are accused of being major crims) like Arthur Alan Thomas?

Yes, John Phillip Key is a smiley douchebag. :x

User avatar
Tartanperil
Posts: 1448
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:56 am
Location: Dunedin

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Tartanperil » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:13 pm

BigNanaJez wrote:... and now the government will change the law to make what they did, in the past, legal.

...

I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last ten years.

Two of my personal hates there.

I'd be all for start-a-political-disscussion-week, but as those who know me will no doubt attest it's like that every week with me. :lol:



noteven wrote:I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them...

Here's how: http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/the-hollow-men-2008



BigNanaJez wrote:Yes unfortunately the growth of the middle class has created a vacuum between rich and poor. It used to be these people lived on the same street and understood each other, now they don't. The problem with this scenario is that people point the finger at each other, the rich blame the poor and visa versa.

Sort of. National have cottoned on how to exploit this; see vid above if you haven't already.

scott penk
Posts: 4750
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:58 pm

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby scott penk » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:08 am

Horus wrote:Why don't we all start referring to Key by his full name (as many girls, and some guys who think its cute/risque call themselves on facebook - or ppl who are accused of being major crims) like Arthur Alan Thomas?

Yes, John Phillip Key is a smiley douchebag. :x

User avatar
steeltoedsneakers
Posts: 3737
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Wellington

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby steeltoedsneakers » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:57 am

Tartanperil wrote:
noteven wrote:I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them...

Here's how: http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/the-hollow-men-2008

Can I get a barometer reading of what people think about Nicky Hager round these here parts? It seems that people listen to him when he says what they want to hear, but when he writes his SAS tell-all he's dismissed as a bit of a nutter.. Is this the papers talking? Or is there real-world sentiment behind this?
dream comfort memory despair

User avatar
Tartanperil
Posts: 1448
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:56 am
Location: Dunedin

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby Tartanperil » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:08 am

Can't say as I know nothing about the his SAS tell-all; but at a guess I'd say media beat-up as initially most media treated him as a bit of a nutter or at least the friendly face of nutters - until he pretty much demonstrated he was a better investigative journalism than many of them.

User avatar
akaxo
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:28 am
Location: antichristchurch

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Postby akaxo » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:30 am

yeah that^ has far more integrity than all the msm combined imo
We must secure the extinction of all people and no future for any children


Return to “Current Affairs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests