getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

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dclxvi
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby dclxvi » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:30 pm

ruff wrote:Have you read Design is a Job dclxvi?


Nah. is it good?
Kerry wrote:Then at an old age, the neighbour's dog thought it would be crakup to maul him and he died so we chucked him up in the ground.


Cosmo Kramer wrote:i have full qualifications (john grisham novels 1-10) and i am yet to sit the bar exam but i know i will pass

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby ruff » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:46 pm

dclxvi wrote:
ruff wrote:Have you read Design is a Job dclxvi?


Nah. is it good?


Yes.

Are you familiar with Mike Monteiro and Mule Design?

http://vimeo.com/22053820

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:47 pm

yo ruff you deziener?
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby dclxvi » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:49 pm

Oh shit, I just realised it's written by this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGra65Nob4
Kerry wrote:Then at an old age, the neighbour's dog thought it would be crakup to maul him and he died so we chucked him up in the ground.


Cosmo Kramer wrote:i have full qualifications (john grisham novels 1-10) and i am yet to sit the bar exam but i know i will pass

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby dclxvi » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:50 pm

Duh. Obviously I don't mash F5 like I used to. Yeah, that guy rules, gonna pick that up now.
Kerry wrote:Then at an old age, the neighbour's dog thought it would be crakup to maul him and he died so we chucked him up in the ground.


Cosmo Kramer wrote:i have full qualifications (john grisham novels 1-10) and i am yet to sit the bar exam but i know i will pass

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby ruff » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:50 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:yo ruff you deziener?


I've likely done more professional design work than a lot of people who claim to be designers; but no, I am not a designer.

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby ruff » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:51 pm

dclxvi wrote:Duh. Obviously I don't mash F5 like I used to. Yeah, that guy rules, gonna pick that up now.


I assumed you would know who he was.

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:53 pm

ruff wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:yo ruff you deziener?


I've likely done more professional design work than a lot of people who claim to be designers; but no, I am not a designer.


i can believe that.

so your not a designer but you can do design work?
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby dclxvi » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:09 pm

ruff wrote:
dclxvi wrote:Duh. Obviously I don't mash F5 like I used to. Yeah, that guy rules, gonna pick that up now.


I assumed you would know who he was.


Yeah bole, I remember him but I didn't know about the book. I should probably pay more attention to the twitters and so on and so forth
Kerry wrote:Then at an old age, the neighbour's dog thought it would be crakup to maul him and he died so we chucked him up in the ground.


Cosmo Kramer wrote:i have full qualifications (john grisham novels 1-10) and i am yet to sit the bar exam but i know i will pass

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby [Tim] » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:17 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:
[Tim] wrote:but why is it a hard industry to get into?

i mean, you can do jobs online if your portfolio is good??

i mean you can get work, not just in your town.

know what im saying?

curious as to why no one would take a chance on you?


There's not as many intermediate/entry level jobs here as say Auckland (and nah I don't want to move). People didn't take a chance because they wanted someone with more experience (usually 3+ years). I need more on the job experience to learn how shit is done properly. But yeah I'm happy doing shit on the side as it comes up.

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby aerozol » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:12 am

dclxvi wrote:
aerozol wrote:don't pay until you have the InDesign/ Illustrator/ Photoshop files (so another designer can edit it later, don't pay for jpgs)

Ignore this. It's standard procedure for many designers to not provide working files. Print-res non-secured .pdfs are industry standard for deliverable files unless otherwise agreed upon. Think of providing working files as the equivalent of a restaurant owner allowing patrons to come in and cook their own food after they've paid for one meal.

This isn't based on my experience of working as a designer, but working for a non-profit with limited funds.
You're going to need those files. Try and get them.

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Akuma » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:34 am

Cosmo Kramer wrote:Image

that poster is awesome.... done by a lady Someone Someone can rerember her name.... we think we might have seen her in San Fran (me and lucas) lucas met her, in NZ, shes not that hot if anyone asking....but still ok.


Nah that was Jessica Hische in San Fran. She did the 'should you work for free' flowchart or something like that.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Akuma » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:46 am

ruff wrote:
dclxvi wrote:
ruff wrote:Have you read Design is a Job dclxvi?


Nah. is it good?


Yes.

Are you familiar with Mike Monteiro and Mule Design?

http://vimeo.com/22053820



Not a fan of Mike Monteiro, although that video is great. Ruff and Logan he does these little radio shows - http://5by5.tv/mistakes if you are into him you may already know about those podcasts, if not then check them out.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby akaxo » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:03 am

dclxvi wrote:
aerozol wrote:don't pay until you have the InDesign/ Illustrator/ Photoshop files (so another designer can edit it later, don't pay for jpgs)


Ignore this. It's standard procedure for many designers to not provide working files. Print-res non-secured .pdfs are industry standard for deliverable files unless otherwise agreed upon. Think of providing working files as the equivalent of a restaurant owner allowing patrons to come in and cook their own food after they've paid for one meal.

Anyway, some pretty good stuff in this thread (Phil especially, nailed it pretty much, lololol) - the only other thing I would add is to make sure you have everything in writing, preferably start with a written agreement/proposal - although if it came down to it, a well-worded email will hold up in a legal dispute, but lets hope that never comes about. If you have a phone discussion, take notes and follow it up in an email straight away, ensuring both parties sign off on everything discussed. Also, for the designer's sake (and your sake if you're paying hourly), try to limit contact with the designer to one person - if you have several people firing through amendments to a project all at different times it can drive the cost up considerably. Most freelance designers don't have account managers and thus have to take care of this themselves. I've had several projects driven up in cost due to poor management on the client's side.

Also don't balk at the cost a freelancer may charge - it could be anywhere between $30-$100/hr if they are worth their salt, which may seem like a lot but they have expenses as well. Taxes, ACC levies, computer equipment, software, office consumables, electricity bills, internet bills, accountancy bills, insurance bills, etc etc. Basically all the shit most people have when they walk into their job is paid for by their employers. Chances are if you do hire a sole-trader you will save a significant amount of money than if you were to pursue the project with an agency.

In regard to payment, expect to drop a deposit, a progress payment (or two) and a final payment. Typically, print files are delivered on receipt of the final payment.

Also: it is cardinal sin to suggest the amount of time you think it might take someone to do something. There is more to the design process than most people will appreciate, and "this should only take you five minutes" might as well equate to "fuck you, you fucking cunt, you fucking piece of shit, get fucked". Unfortunately there are a more than a handful of cowboys out there ruining everything for everyone else by shithousing clients and deteriorating trust in independent contractors by providing half-ass work and dressing shit up as shit that it isnt (this is especially prevalent in the web industry, I've noticed), which sucks, but I guess that's a fact of life. Ultimately the client/designer relationship is heavily founded on mutual respect and trust - so it helps if you get along with these people personally instead of just hiring some bloke who did a short-course in Photoshop and can undercut any other potential candidates.

If you're after a crash course in client etiquette, have a look here: http://www.clientsfromhell.net

this is neat also:
Image
cheers for all that, very helpful. and yeah i know bugger all about pro designing so had no preconceptions about how long the work takes, i have though spent many many hours putting together shitty punk zines so can appreciate things take a lot longer than it can look.

and the rates seen reasonable, kinda like when people moan about paying tattooists upwards of $100 an hour ha, when if they're charging anything less you know they're taking shortcuts somewhere they really shouldn't be because of the costs involved, it's not an hourly rate just for labour after all.

am ideally wanting to go with someone that is self employed so as to build up a good working relationship with one person as there's likely to be on going work, and yeah def get what you are saying about the relationship being built on mutual respect and trust and being able to get along with them. i don't know anyone that does this shit personally but hoping to find someone that is sympathetic to what we're doing at least and also isn't a fly-by-nighter.

cheers.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby akaxo » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:23 am

jont420 wrote:
undercover wrote:
akaxo wrote:...and on ya for posting that link to the chch punks facebook group, i saw it before you changed the link to include the pic instead.....

Shit - didn't click that I scrapped the link.... important viewing for everyone on here at http://www.facebook.com/groups/christchurchpunks/

:tohlc: 0X :explainittomelikeimfive: :popcorn: :calav: 8) :x :oops:, etc....



Well that page is depressing .

oi respect your elders! it's a good snapshot of chch back then and i found it awesome to look at. a few familiar faces etc and since finding it it's helped a good mate of mine from that era get in contact with someone he used to live with as she'd posted a photo of him i showed him since he has no facebook.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:32 am

whatever, ive got a tattoo kit il tattoo you for free, pigskin is expensive.

enjoyed this thread, especial thanx to calav, who knows how i think.

its not a real job if it doesnt involve a loud rattling motor and/or lifting heavy shit, thats what job means, get a dictionary ferrchristakes
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:02 am

dclxvi wrote:"this should only take you five minutes" might as well equate to "fuck you, you fucking cunt, you fucking piece of shit, get fucked".

haha. :fadein:

Image

i actually dont look in the mirror, have a shower or brush my teeth in the morning.
do i need a designer?
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby akaxo » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:13 am

you may well need gok
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:34 am

gok?

i generally have a shower after work/before i go out/before i go to bed, same with teeth, i look in the mirror a lot, cos i look so choice, but not really in the morning, i generally wake up and struggle into my wet stinky socks have a bigass cup of tea and jump on a motorbike to get my fingers frozen blue.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby akaxo » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:46 pm

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Grave Dancer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:38 pm

^^ hurr
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby dustbinflowers » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:27 pm

everyone needs Gok
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:45 pm

Fiction & Falsehood wrote:whatever, ive got a tattoo kit il tattoo you for free, pigskin is expensive.

enjoyed this thread, especial thanx to calav, who knows how i think.

its not a real job if it doesnt involve a loud rattling motor and/or lifting heavy shit, thats what job means, get a dictionary ferrchristakes




so....you act one way on punkas and a different way in real life?

is that what you are trying to say?

:explainittomelikeimfive:
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:06 pm

i dont think so, maybe its true tho, what do you think?
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:08 pm

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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:16 pm

Fiction & Falsehood wrote:i dont think so, maybe its true tho, what do you think?



well, fortunately/unfortunately i haven't met you,....


but, usually people off here are the same as how they are online... well, the long standers are
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:21 pm

i dont really like to stand for that long, im always the first one finding a chair or step to sit on.
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Re: getting designers to do stuff: how does that shit work?

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:28 pm

Fiction & Falsehood wrote:i dont really like to stand for that long, im always the first one finding a chair or step to sit on.



:explainittomelikeimfive:
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