Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby . » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:16 pm

dustbinflowers wrote:I think laws and regulations are not going to prevent people who want to do stuff to other people from getting guns. There are an awful lot of unregistered firearms out there, and unlicenced people with them.


except time and time again it's proven that regulations ARE effective. just look at australian stats since the post-port arthur regulations have been in place. it's undeniable. and i suppose it's just a coincidence that america with next to zero gun regulation have the highest amount of gun deaths on the planet? yes there are an awful lot of unregistered firearms out there. and if guns weren't regulated there'd be more. not the best logic there tbh.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby dustbinflowers » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:32 pm

I'm not actually against gun regulation- I really don't like them, or like being around them, I have had really scary run ins with loose nut types with them (neither of who were hunters, or firearms licenced). I also acknowledge that they are tools, in the same way chainsaws and motor vehicles are. I have had negative run ins with hunters a couple of times, but I was not in fear of my life- they were just wankers. The vast majority of contact I have had with hunters has been really good, with them being very onto it and respectful of other people around them. As far as existing gun regulations go, I'd argue that NZ's are probably already at about the level of Australia's. I am just guessing though.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby Red_switch » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:38 am

. wrote:
dustbinflowers wrote:I think laws and regulations are not going to prevent people who want to do stuff to other people from getting guns. There are an awful lot of unregistered firearms out there, and unlicenced people with them.


except time and time again it's proven that regulations ARE effective. just look at australian stats since the post-port arthur regulations have been in place. it's undeniable. and i suppose it's just a coincidence that america with next to zero gun regulation have the highest amount of gun deaths on the planet? yes there are an awful lot of unregistered firearms out there. and if guns weren't regulated there'd be more. not the best logic there tbh.


I'm not at all pro-gun. But neither would I suggest it's that straight-forward. The USA is pretty much anomalous when it comes to gun statistics.

If you look at gun ownership rates globally, and remove the USA and nations with current or recent civil war, the direct correlations between gun ownership and gun related crime start to break down pretty rapidly. This suggests that culture is probably as important as regulation, and effective regulation of weapons in circulation has a more positive impact than outright clamping down on all weapons. Countries with long histories of hunting with firearms, and high gun ownership tend to have relatively low gun crime rates. Countries (other than the USA) where gun crime is prolific (central and south america in particular) have pretty low ownership rates of guns.

I don't like guns, but I don't like shitty use of statistics either.

As an aside, we often hear the argument that high gun ownership rates lead to an effective arms race with police forces. Police in many European countries are armed as heavily, or moreso, than in the USA. Yet they don't seem to go around shooting up brown people as frequently. Culture has a lot to answer for.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby FC » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:13 am

Not really. Its a primeval thing I reckon, fight or flight, whether its necessary anymore or not.

I think you're equating torturing an animal with hunting. The two aren't the same. I don't think many hunters are purposely lengthening the suffering they cause. If anything I think it's probably the opposite.

Hunting and fishing cause the same rush of adrenalin I feel, would you see fishing rods banned?
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby Red_switch » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:33 pm

Carrying on that argument gets you to a pretty weird place. Balance is crucial.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby 9seconds » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:22 pm

fishing rods can be lethal to humans if you put a hook in a piece of chocolate and haul cunts up off the street by the gullet from your office window.

personally i dont enjoy killing, at all, i get some satisfaction from killing wasps and mozzies and even flies, tho some slight guilt with the latter, because i feel that these fuckers are out to get me, im sure id feel just as good about killing a wild bull, or the sort of fuckwit who would release them, because those fuckers are actively trying to kill me or endanger my life.

ive got an adequate capacity for violence if i feel its necessary, but not for harming the innocent, and sadly pest species arent at fault, its unfortunate to have to kill them, but its still a mean as fuck job, and the best sort of meat.

i dont see how trophy hunters are automatically negligent with guns? i dont like what they do either, but it hardly bears any reference to their safety skills and culture.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby Red_switch » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:27 pm

Of all the reasons to dislike trophy hunters in particular (a group I'm really not fond of), negligence with guns would be near the bottom of the list eh.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby PertHJ » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:32 am

J wrote:fuck sorry aidan i just edited your post instead of quoting it!!!


Argh my new found power have given me a perpetual fear of quoting due to the dread of accidentally doing this


9seconds wrote:fishing rods can be lethal to humans if you put a hook in a piece of chocolate and haul cunts up off the street by the gullet from your office window.


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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby akaxo » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:33 am

after holding them under water for a while and taking photos
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby FC » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:18 pm

I think the rush of killing something is probably balanced with the bad feeling of it in some cases, but i never felt bad shooting a pest species.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby 9seconds » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:36 am

i have felt bad for every single possum i ever killed, and its literally thousands.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby General Mutante » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:05 pm

Possum Hitler.
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby PertHJ » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:05 pm

Yeah don't really understand how you can't feel a bit bad killing an animal, even if it is a pest
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Re: Dodgy stats underpin another subtle step towards a police state

Postby 9seconds » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:45 pm

i usually apologise to them, haha, ask them to keep still so i can make it quick, they dont listen tho.

anyway, a different matter, but evidence of a descent toward a dystopian police state

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/gangs/news/ar ... d=11550680
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