Racism vs Racial Prejudice

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:13 pm

I just tried that and it just gave me the empty submission form lol.

The basic jist is that the confusion has arisen from very silly people not understanding the difference between institutional and individual racism. Basically dorks see academics describing institutional racism as only being able to be perpetrated by the majority/ruling group, as even something pro a different ethnic group is still in their power/their decision to make. Hurr durr and a few chinese (racist!) whispers later it becomes "only white people can be racist" or "minorities can't be racist" which is stupid as fuck. An Indian man that hates all Pakistanis based on stereotypes is, of course, a racist. That same Indian man, who is racist on an individual level, could not be institutionally racist in NZ because his grouping does not hold enough power (and never can unless they outnumber all other groupings in the country, as we [theoretically] live in a representational democracy).
Last edited by yossarian on Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby PertHJ » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:21 pm

:thumbup:

yossarian wrote:The basic jist is that the confusion has arisen from very silly people not understanding the difference between institutional and individual racism


Am pretty keen to get some alternative opinions to this as, like Phil says, it seems to be a pretty common view point that someone belonging to an oppressed race/culture can not be (individually) racist toward someone belonging to the race/culture responsible for the oppression....

I guess there's also the case for individual -ist behaviours (and combinations of) which are socially acceptable (particularly for self preservation) within communities and/or society, and those that aren't.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:35 pm

oh great, now pert is rage deleting my posts, it was fucking long, insightful and would have changed the fucking world. :calav:

nah i said something like i dont think aussie racism is that much worse than NZ, it is worse, but they are more multicultural as well, the douchebags are just more vocal there, and the institutional racism against the native people is terrible.

if australians are all racist, so are kiwis, pretty much saying all white people are racist by that logic, which is pretty much the message im getting from this bullshit anyway.

yossarian wrote:The basic jist is that the confusion has arisen from very silly people not understanding the difference between institutional and individual racism. Basically dorks see academics describing institutional racism as only being able to be perpetrated by the majority/ruling group, as even something pro a different ethnic group is still in their power/their decision to make. Hurr durr and a few chinese (racist!) whispers later it becomes "only white people can be racist" or "minorities can't be racist" which is stupid as fuck. An Indian man that hates all Pakistanis based on stereotypes is, of course, a racist. That same Indian man, who is racist on an individual level, could not be institutionally racist in NZ because his grouping does not hold enough power (and never can unless they outnumber all other groupings in the country, as we [theoretically] live in a representational democracy).

ah, that explains that, but what still confuses me is that some otherwise quite rational and reasonable people are getting into this bung concept, it seems quite widespread among people whose views i would normally agree with, and its really fucking depressing, are they just buying in to this crazy narrative that paints all fair skinned people as devils unless they 'check yo privilege'?
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:41 pm

I think it's cause tumblr chicks do crazy sex stuff.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Red_switch » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:51 am

It's a bit of a bizarre microcosm, that's for sure.
I think it's lint.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:53 am

its really just a way to be 'better' than others, which is fuckin ironic when you think about it.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:02 am

altho, one thing thats quite funny about this headache of an ideology, is that its exactly what kittenslayer was trying to tell us all along.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby PertHJ » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:34 pm

8O :explainittomelikeimfive:

Maybe we need to rethink this
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Max » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:18 am


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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:24 am

despite being horribly condescending, i agreed with all of that right up until the concept that black people cannot be individually racist toward white people, being 'backed up by an institution' or not, doesnt change what words mean, nor does skin colour, we arent arguing over whether or not the dictionary definition fully explains the concept of racism btw, thats a bit strawman.
if racial prejudice is when a black person hates white people and/or treats them badly, then what is prejudice based on race called?
if racial prejudice is 'whoa totally not okay dude' then why does it need to be given another name when it already has a perfectly good one?

what im starting to understand is that its just a replacement for 'reverse racism' which was obviously a stupid term in the first place, theres only racism, no matter who from or to, its just simply what the word means, but since they want to use 'racial prejudice' in exactly the same way as 'reverse racism', despite it having another meaning altogether, then it really is bullshit semantics.

nobodies saying theres a level playing field here, im not trying to deny that the racism white people sometimes experience is nothing on what black people in america, or maori here, or basically any groups marginalised by race anywhere, have to deal with, im well aware of it and it fuckin sux, this isnt about trying to defend anyones lofty position of privilege, its about people using semantics to shut down discussion of something that is actually really damaging to the entire anti-racist movement.

it certainly doesnt really matter to me what the fuck you call it, hatred is hatred, but giving it a different name when its directed at fair skinned people is only saying that its not as bad or is more acceptable, maybe this shit makes sense in north america, but i doubt that.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby . » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:40 am

mmmm....good crack wrote:
PertHJ wrote:seems to be white males posting these definitions/beliefs.


beta cucks and white knights


can't tell if serious, or actual mra moron.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:24 pm

oh yeh, a friend of mine who is of african descent once told me how she angrily told somebody off for racist abuse, and was dumbfounded when she was told "i cant be racist im maori"

i think a lot of people think racism is just something white people do, something they always believed, and this nonsense is just the rationalisation of that belief.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Red_switch » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:56 pm

^ "like"
I think it's lint.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby PertHJ » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:03 pm

9seconds wrote:What im starting to understand is that its just a replacement for 'reverse racism' which was obviously a stupid term in the first place, theres only racism, no matter who from or to, its just simply what the word means, but since they want to use 'racial prejudice' in exactly the same way as 'reverse racism', despite it having another meaning altogether, then it really is bullshit semantics.

this isnt about trying to defend anyones lofty position of privilege, its about people using semantics to shut down discussion of something that is actually really damaging to the entire anti-racist movement.


This seems to be the case. Do sociologists really define racism/racial prejudice only in these specific ways?
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:10 pm

tbh, altho thats what she implied, i dont think she outright said that they do, so probably not ay.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:14 pm

Plz do not step to my academic studies with a youtube video from MTV news. That shit is fucking idiotic.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Red_switch » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:20 am

I have far more to do with staunch feminist, post-modern academics than I'd like. And the pop-feminism and inclusivism/exclusivism that pops up online seems poles apart from the academic arguments (to me at least), which just frustrates the situation even more. At least academics are generally critical and rational (if nothing else sometimes).

Spending too much time on, say, everyday feminism is at least as frustrating as spending too much time on whaleoil.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:17 am

xojane/jezebel often make me wnat to flip out and buy a fedora.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:17 am

yossarian wrote:xojane/jezebel often make me want to flip out and buy a fedora.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:25 am

Yeh, was gunna say that video kinda inspired bigotry in me, not tolerance.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Dixon Cider A.C. » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:01 pm

While we're banishing white people from dreadlocks, where we at with nose rings? Know a few Hindi people rockin that look, did we rip that off them too? So hard to know what's appropriate now

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby yossarian » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:09 pm

It's cool how there are now some left wing people pushing for total miscegenation and apartheid. makes it a non partisan issue and much more likely to happen.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:04 pm

do you mean anti-miscegenation?

Dixon Cider A.C. wrote:While we're banishing white people from dreadlocks, where we at with nose rings? Know a few Hindi people rockin that look, did we rip that off them too? So hard to know what's appropriate now

its kinda funny to think that the shaven headed look was copied off jaimacans as well, obviously these wet turds would think roddy mereno is a nazi stormtrooper tho, so probably a moot point.

cultural misappropriation is a real bugger
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby Red_switch » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:24 pm

He must mean anti... but yeah, it's deliciously ironic.
I think it's lint.

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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby The Ost » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:55 pm

I think, if you're fair-skinned person, and someone who appears to be of another racial background is a little bit prejudiced towards you, it's not that big of a deal. Just cop it and do your best change their opinion. It's the only way to move forward.

Australia is a weird phenomenon. It's as though the inclusion of any non-fair skinned people somehow causes their country to not be quite as outstandingly, amazingly awesome as the general public leads themselves to believe. Unless they play sport or make food.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby PertHJ » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:26 pm

The Ost wrote:I think, if you're fair-skinned person, and someone who appears to be of another racial background is a little bit prejudiced towards you, it's not that big of a deal. Just cop it and do your best change their opinion. It's the only way to move forward


I think we're all reasonably comfortable with this concept.

What's frustrating is when there's a reason to use the word racist in a discussion toward a non white person and the conversation gets completely derailed by arguments of what can and can't be considered so
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:00 pm

yeh, im pretty tolerant of a bit of intolerance from certain people, but the thing is, we are equals, i mentioned the other day to a maori guy that i do a bit of carving and he assumed it would be 'skulls and shit' actually its mostly been maori/pacific and christian themed stuff, whatever people want.
the same guy assumes my missus has money, she is generous to a fault, but if she had money she wouldnt be living in that area, we are both just as poor as he is, its a little tiring to face these prejudices on a daily basis(thats what racial prejudice is by the way, not abusive/hateful shit, thats called racism).
i dont really like to complain about it, as i know a guy like him faces much worse and more constant prejudice every day, hes only in tauranga to find work, and now hes on the dole, and i dont think for a fuckin second that he likes that state of affairs.

but what im really fuckin sick of is middle class white people, he kind he mistakes me for, telling me this shit doesnt happen, and actual racism, just cos it doesnt bother you in your nice neighbourhood, doesnt mean you can tell me what happens in mine.

i think i do exactly what you say Steve, in fact my girlfriends brother actually assumed i am part maori cos of my attitude toward the culture, funny cos he is, tho you wouldnt know it.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby PertHJ » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:26 pm

9seconds wrote:yeh, im pretty tolerant of a bit of intolerance from certain people, but the thing is, we are equals [.......] a guy like him faces much worse and more constant prejudice every day, hes only in tauranga to find work, and now hes on the dole, and i dont think for a fuckin second that he likes that state of affairs.


Wouldn't that mean you're not exactly equals?
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:57 pm

yeh, i guess you got me there.
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Re: Racism vs Racial Prejudice

Postby 9seconds » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:18 pm

anyway, before we go too far off the original topic, it occurs to me that the only people who believe racism toward white people isnt racism are people like bruce zhang who howl racist insults at you then claim they cannot be racist.
and smug 20-something uber-lefties who cant stop congratulating themselves on their successful happy lives and checking their privilege to see its not just handed out to everyone who is fair skinned, in fact they clearly see anyone who isnt as trendy and urbane as they as inferior, the lack of success despite all the privilege being the damning evidence.

essentially they are saying all white people are racist, unless they are wealthy and privileged.

i think im gunna call it the kittenslayer philosophy.
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