UBER

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Uber

Good Idea
13
68%
Bad Idea
6
32%
 
Total votes: 19

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snuff
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Re: UBER

Postby snuff » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:37 am

Red_switch wrote:Autonomous cars are also a largely retarded idea. Having more cars on the road, with fewer occupants in each, is unlikely to improve transportation for most people.


Actually experts are predicting it would mean less cars.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... clays-says

There's also a whole host of other benefits including cleaner air and more green space in cities...
http://gizmodo.com/7-big-ways-our-citie ... 1748366449

Japan is looking at rolling out autonomous taxi's for the 2020 olympics.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/business/AJ201505290069
I guess you really need to ask yourself... What Would Graeme Do?

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:27 pm

J wrote:cause everyone is just going to cycle and walk everywhere in your fantasy future right?

red_switch, knows more about autonomous vehicles than elon musk.

lol :explainittomelikeimfive:


Elon Musk is hedging his bets, actually, not even that. Most of his eggs are in mass transit.

Why not walk/cycle most places if you can? If most of your existence is urban, I recommend it personally.

We have a love affair with vehicles, and the supposed independence they grant us. We are going to have to get over that.

BTW, I think autonomous vehicles are great, but they are not a silver bullet for transportation issues. They certainly won't solve the problems that a city like Auckland faces (which is imposed largely by geography). And they certainly aren't a complete replacement for public transport (which is how many of their backers are billing them) - they simply aren't an efficient solution to that (which is why Musk has got such a hard on for his hyper loop). They probably will make our roads safer, eventually. They'll probably reduce the need to personally own a vehicle, without losing the "independence" that that grants.

Autonomous vehicles have been Google's major ambition for a long, long time now. That has been the main motivator for most of their geospatial work (i.e. Google Maps/Google Earth).

Anyway, who is Musk again? Another guy who we should supposedly pay attention to because he made a fuckton of money through (often dubious) business practice? Isn't that the same reason we are repeatedly told John Key is worth paying attention to? Most of his "ideas" now are not his ideas at all. He just leverages the shitty reality of IP law in the commercial world to take credit for the work of those who work for him (incidentally, staff turnover in most of his organisations is high). He's made a lot of money, so he has a lot of money to throw at problems. Sounds good on the surface, I agree. But he's in it for the money, not to make the world a better place. Just another fuckwit .com empire builder.

Just because every second business reporter at Bloomberg is head over heels for these guys doesn't mean they should be elevated to status of worship, or free from scrutiny (though they do a pretty good job of ensuring both).
Last edited by Red_switch on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:30 pm

snuff wrote:
Red_switch wrote:Autonomous cars are also a largely retarded idea. Having more cars on the road, with fewer occupants in each, is unlikely to improve transportation for most people.


Actually experts are predicting it would mean less cars.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... clays-says

There's also a whole host of other benefits including cleaner air and more green space in cities...
http://gizmodo.com/7-big-ways-our-citie ... 1748366449

Japan is looking at rolling out autonomous taxi's for the 2020 olympics.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/business/AJ201505290069


Those articles don't all say what you think they are saying for the sake of this argument. Fundamentally, small cars with only a few pax each are "bulkier" transport solutions than mass transit.

Most of the people who support this idea of an autonomous fleet do so because they don't like trains and buses. In NZ, Cameron Slater would be a prime example.
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Re: UBER

Postby snuff » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:47 pm

Red_switch wrote:Elon Musk is hedging his bets, actually, not even that. Most of his eggs are in mass transit.


I finished reading his biography recently, and yes it is mass transit but with mass transit being electric cars, space travel, and hyperloop. I'd say it's equally in renewables and infrastructure too though.

Red_switch wrote:Those articles don't all say what you think they are saying for the sake of this argument. Fundamentally, small cars with only a few pax each are "bulkier" transport solutions than mass transit.

Most of the people who support this idea of an autonomous fleet do so because they don't like trains and buses. In NZ, Cameron Slater would be a prime example.


I dunno if you've ever been to a major city like NYC or not but if you remove cars from say Manhattan, and limit it to autonomous taxis, delivery vehicles, and emergency services that's a pretty non existent vehicle footprint you're left with. And in cities like that which would only become more conducive to foot and bike traffic, how is that not a win? Arguing against it seems a bit redundant.
I guess you really need to ask yourself... What Would Graeme Do?

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:03 pm

I've been to NYC. While there are far more cars than taxis in Manhattan, the number of taxis on the road at any time outnumbers private cars substantially. You remove the private cars, you're going to end up with more taxis (or whatever) in their place. It's a spatial problem. New Yorkers already understand this, which is why public transport is so heavily used and generally works well - vastly different to say, LA on that front. You can walk blocks in NYC and literally only see taxis/uber cars etc.

But one advantage that most of the major cities in the USA have is that they were planned in a relatively coordinated way and typically have regularly gridded street layouts (even where that probably never made sense - San Francisco). This makes things like the rollout of autonomous fleets much more straightforward than in cities where infrastructure has grown more organically, because congestion can be better managed (especially when combined with things like smart traffic signals). Elsewhere, (Most of Europe, Asia, and South America for example), a subsequent increase in vehicles (albeit, smaller autonomous vehicles) will almost certainly lead to increased congestion. This is research coming from the people that are working on autonomous fleets, they understand the limitations. It's also the problem with the freeway system in LA, it "grew" organically, with little coordinated planning, which is why there are so many LHS exits (through downtown in particular) - this is recognised as one of the major causes of congestion and accidents. Certainly makes the driving interesting!

Most of the roading infrastructure in the western world pre-dates widespread private vehicle ownership. Which is why adding more cars, no matter who is or isn't driving them, generally creates more problems than it solves.
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Re: UBER

Postby snuff » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:29 pm

Correct. So what would you propose for poorly designed cities?

It would only take a couple generations to grow up in cities with this to think nothing of private car ownership. When you say it's a spatial problem, what the cars on the road? The parking? Aside from going to and from work, the odd trip here and there to get groceries or for extra curricular activities when else do you really need a car in a city?
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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:38 pm

snuff wrote:Correct. So what would you propose for poorly designed cities?

It would only take a couple generations to grow up in cities with this to think nothing of private car ownership. When you say it's a spatial problem, what the cars on the road? The parking? Aside from going to and from work, the odd trip here and there to get groceries or for extra curricular activities when else do you really need a car in a city?


Going up to Lookout point and making out, square.

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:06 pm

snuff wrote:Correct. So what would you propose for poorly designed cities?

It would only take a couple generations to grow up in cities with this to think nothing of private car ownership. When you say it's a spatial problem, what the cars on the road? The parking? Aside from going to and from work, the odd trip here and there to get groceries or for extra curricular activities when else do you really need a car in a city?


Well, mass transit makes sense. Trains are known to work well, especially when services can be established underground or overhead - which is why now is a watershed time for Auckland. If they wait any longer, future building construction will make it impossible to optimally locate services.

But so much of this is just about perception. LA has probably one of the nicest looking metro/subways I've ever seen, but it's seemingly always deserted? They just can't let go of driving.

The key thing with making public transport really work is that it needs to become a replacement for cars, not something only used by people who don't already own a car.

I don't really use a car at all during the week, infact I don't think I've driven my car since I got back from holiday. But fuck, plenty of people will take the car two blocks to buy a litre of milk.
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Re: UBER

Postby snuff » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:27 am

Well I don't think anyone is proposing getting rid of things like the subway, sticking with Manhattan as the case in point - you need to multiple solutions to the problem. Yeah Auckland really needs to get it's shit together, my understanding that there was a half decent tunnel network there from the war? I know if you look at London (yes it was the first city to have underground rail) they are always adding lines, I think Auckland needs to bite the bullet and just invest in it, or do it properly above with rail/trams or combo. Of course the rest of NZ will probably pack a sad about that money being spent on Dorkland but when a third of your population lives there just suck it up cupcakes.

Whenever I've been in LA it's reminded me of Auckland in that regard, in fact I've heard that AK is the largest city in the world spatially but can't find anything to back it up so maybe I'll just forget that stat.

The key things to making it a viable replacement are it needs to be affordable, punctual, clean, and safe.
I guess you really need to ask yourself... What Would Graeme Do?

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Re: UBER

Postby Lurch » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:29 am

I'd definitely buy that Auckland is the less dense city with a population higher than 1 million in the world.
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Re: UBER

Postby Dead Kid » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:11 pm

snuff wrote:Whenever I've been in LA it's reminded me of Auckland in that regard, in fact I've heard that AK is the largest city in the world spatially but can't find anything to back it up so maybe I'll just forget that stat.

Heard that too. Looks like someone fucked up and compared the area of the entire Auckland Region to the urban areas of other cities, and then it became a John Banksism. You're right that LA is a good comparison though:
http://transportblog.co.nz/2010/07/21/a ... the-myths/
Yet we still see that Auckland’s population density is a bit higher than Sydney’s and significantly higher than all the other major cities in Australia. Interestingly enough though, one city that has a higher population density than Auckland is Los Angeles. In fact, Los Angeles has the highest density of any city in the USA – not because it has a really dense core like New York does, but because throughout Los Angeles the lot sizes are generally pretty small, a similar situation to what we have in Auckland.
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:57 pm

It's a little bit hard to compare given differing definitions of city (from an administrative point of view) and the other administrative units that make up many cities. Spatially, Dunedin is huge. Mostly empty though.
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Re: UBER

Postby UNIT » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:20 pm

snuff wrote:Image


Genuine loal.

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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:50 pm

J wrote:pert help, punkas is shit again

It was always shit, that's what's so great about it.

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:53 pm

J wrote:pert help, punkas is shit again


I can't even figure out if they're actually disagreeing or not.

David Tong AKA Joey Normal is currently staying with me, have been dropping some unsubtle hints that he should check Punkas out again. No doubt he'd beable to school us on public transport/pop density etc etc
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Re: UBER

Postby Lurch » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:08 pm

If I were to start shit about posi-core christian ginger straight edge vegans will it help? He'll step in and tear us all a new one in a positively fashion I am sure.
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:00 pm

Perhaps replace Christ with Climate and you'd be on the money
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Re: UBER

Postby snuff » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:59 am

I never understood those hardout christians who think climate change isn't real, you think they'd be all about Noah 2: More water.
I guess you really need to ask yourself... What Would Graeme Do?

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:58 am

Thought it had been a pretty good discussion, tbh.

In summary, from my pov, Uber is a shit business model, that will shit on everyone, sooner or later.

Autonomous vehicles in theory are awesome, and *should* be part of our long term transport solutions (with a range of other options too). BUT, unfortunately, a lot of the people backing them in a commercial sense (this is the case in NZ for example) are doing so in opposition to/competition with expanded/improved public transport. Other considerations get interesting too - currently all vehicle owners/drivers pay for the development and maintenance of roading infrastructure through ruc's, fuel levys etc, and rates for local govt managed roads (so it doesn't matter if you own/drive a car or not in that case). If we were eventually to remove the private vehicle fleet entirely from our roads, at which point road networks become entirely commercial infrastructure (assuming that autonomous vehicles will be provided as a commercial service) what is then the best/most efficient and effective way to manage the funding for roading infrastructure? This is an issue that is already being anticipated and grappled with at a central govt level in NZ, and from the sounds of thing, it is not at all straightforward. Certainly a lot less so than the current funding models, which are far from polished.

Also, youth climate justice activist groups are mostly a conflicted crock of shit.
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Re: UBER

Postby 9seconds » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:29 pm

snuff wrote:I dunno if you've ever been to a major city like NYC or not

no but ive played heaps of grand theft auto, which gives me a pretty good working understanding.

auckland has the second largest area in the world after mexico city, i read somewhere, dunno if the :baton: or the :tohlc: have :explainittomelikeimfive: it out tho.
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Re: UBER

Postby 9seconds » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:37 pm

snuff wrote:Image

Image

i still think youre dramatically underestimating car thieves, but i guess thats the privilege of somebody who doesnt really drive.
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:47 pm

Just saw a email from ASB advertising 15% off UBER rides when using ASB CC. Big business.
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:46 am

http://hungjurynz.bandcamp.com/
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Re: UBER

Postby Drax » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:21 pm

Haven't used Uber that much and every ride I've taken has been good. Account just got haXXXXed, and someone took a costly hoon in a cab somewhere in Canada. Fair enough to that trickster, but I'm not paying for that shit. As far as I'm aware, I didn't do anything that would've compromised the security of my account. Hopefully Uber gets back to me and sorts it out soon. I doubt I'll use it much if at all after this.

It's not that much cheaper than using Discount Cabs with a Black Card, and since I KNOW the people who run it are cunts, I shouldn't be using it anyway. Yeah, it's faster and more convenient. But overall I think it's shittier. I always leave an Uber with a bit of a dirty feeling....
...even though their seats seem so cleeeeeean.

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Re: UBER

Postby Drax » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:49 pm

Your post just made me realise there's a bunch of lazy-ass habits with internet security that I have which I should really rectify.

I don't really have any doubts that I'll get my refund, and I wasn't at all suspecting that Uber themselves would be to blame for it. It's more that this is a bit of a pain in the ass that I wouldn't be dealing with right now if I'd just stuck with crusty old Discount Taxis. Who, to be honest, have upped their game quite a bit in the last few years.

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Re: UBER

Postby Drax » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:24 pm

Absolutely. Though what you're talking about is a completely different scenario. Uber had it completely sorted out within an hour of me submitting a form.

Still, fuck Uber. This is just a minor thing, and I wouldn't say it's Uber's fault at all. But it's enough for me to make up my mind.


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