UBER

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Uber

Good Idea
13
68%
Bad Idea
6
32%
 
Total votes: 19

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PertHJ
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UBER

Postby PertHJ » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:13 pm

So guys

More affordable and customer service oriented or slippery lack of governmental worker rights regulatory slope?
Last edited by PertHJ on Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:52 am

Uber does not give a shit about customers.
I think it's lint.

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PertHJ
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:58 am

Innit all about rating drivers/passengers?
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:47 am

That's part of it, but it benefits uber more than anyone else.
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:52 am

Andrew Keen is a bit of a whingey whiner, but has much more insight into this than most: https://youtu.be/_er85psPOrM
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:05 pm

Red_switch wrote:That's part of it, but it benefits uber more than anyone else.


But that's behind any company that focuses on customer service.



But I do agree that the lack of regulations can lead to bad things happening. I guess because it's grown to be something that drivers and customers rely on it makes things a lot more complicated than the idea it started from.


What about air B&B, same deal?
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Re: UBER

Postby scott penk » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:09 pm

Red_switch wrote:Uber does not give a shit about customers.


not like any other taxi company does either

I love uber. I can check out someones rating / reviews and know who is picking me up, and exactly when, and what its gonna cost. Instead of 'someone will be there in next 30 minutes', which can be anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour.

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Re: UBER

Postby scott penk » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:14 pm

PertHJ wrote:[
But I do agree that the lack of regulations can lead to bad things happening. I guess because it's grown to be something that drivers and customers rely on it makes things a lot more complicated than the idea it started from.

What about air B&B, same deal?


I think that Uber drivers should be subject to some of the regulations that taxis are subject to, like having insurance. Most of the taxi companies know they have been creaming it off the drivers for years and they are pissed that someone had a great idea and implemented it before they did it themselves. Its not like all taxi drivers (in Auckland anyway) are super safe and reliable anyway.

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Re: UBER

Postby Window Licker » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:23 pm

I use uber twice a day at least 5 days a week. So probably well over 300 ubers total. Of that maybe 5 have slightly annoyed me, one has creeped me out and one has ripped me off (i think, but i was wasted so i may have spewed in his car and deserved a $50 'cleaning fee', but i'm pretty sure i didn't). I have used uber support maybe 5 times and always had my issue resolved within the hour, with a full refund. Uber's are always clean, usually friendly, and take the route i tell them to. Sometimes they give me water and lollies. One guy had iced tea and coconut water for fucks sake.
The last taxi i got had human piss all over the seat and gave no fucks when i told him about it.
When customers at work make me order them a taxi they take about 30 mins to arrive and then usually 3 more show up and yell at me because the people have already been picked up.
I never had any issues with taxis in NZ, but Melbourne's next level FUKT and i glad they're getting REKT.
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:11 am

Where did we get with this?
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Re: UBER

Postby 9seconds » Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:07 pm

uber is better, but smelly taxis are still ok if you dont mind blood, cum, shit, hand sweat crystals, things from inbetween seats and other goodies
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Re: UBER

Postby . » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:09 pm

Last edited by . on Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UBER

Postby 9seconds » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:19 pm

seems like the problems with uber are mainly due to a lack of regulation
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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:23 pm

It is absolutely retarded and an inevitable result of anyone in a position of political power being an old fucking dust skeleton who stopped keeping up with technology around the dawn of flight that for some reason having an app instead of a phone number magically exempts you from all the standard regulation your industry is subject to.

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Re: UBER

Postby . » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:00 pm

yossarian wrote:It is absolutely retarded and an inevitable result of anyone in a position of political power being an old fucking dust skeleton who stopped keeping up with technology around the dawn of flight that for some reason having an app instead of a phone number magically exempts you from all the standard regulation your industry is subject to.


this!

also, it's about way more than regulation.

if the discussion was about uber's business model, then yes, it'd mainly be about regulation.

but it's not. uber, the company, is run by a group of pharma-bro-esque fascists who literally think they are entitled to operate any aspect of their business outside of the law. this includes hacking the answer phones of journalists, doxing, and who the fucking knows what else.

fuck. uber.
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:45 pm

"like"
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:08 am

PertHJ wrote:
What about air B&B, same deal?
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:27 am

Not at all dissimilar.
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby Dixon Cider A.C. » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:24 pm

Taxis can eat a dick Uber where possible every time from now on

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:48 pm

So it seems like a lot of the negative feedback toward uber is about them as a company/people....which is fair enough, but seems like it's getting in the way of if the general idea of the service is a good idea or not.

Both uber and Airbnb (and others?) must have grown from a pretty small service provider/user base and have grown to massive global things...so in general it must have worked well on a small scale otherwise they wouldn't be where they are today. And on a small scale are regulations that big a deal (people get pretty pissed off when regulatory bodies comedown on the likes of someone selling jam at a carboot sale)?

So is the negative attention really due to:

The wealth of the organisations? What if it was operated by a not for profit- Where it was just about the individual service providers/customers?

Or the size of the organisation? How many providers/customers before it becomes an issue?
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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:43 pm

PertHJ wrote:. And on a small scale are regulations that big a deal (people get pretty pissed off when regulatory bodies comedown on the likes of someone selling jam at a carboot sale)?


Pert, I love you, but that statement is retarded as hell.
Yes, the family owned restaurant with 4 staff should have the same safety regulations as McDonalds. People don't get listeria from public trading.
Yes, the guy flying the Cessna should have to have a pilot's license even though it's just him and one passenger in the plane, so he doesn't put it through a 747.
Yes, the guy picking up intoxicated people on their own in the middle of the night should be regulated whether there are 2 drivers in the company or 1000

Etc

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:35 am

Dude I'm kind of playing devils advocate here, and fully understand the importance of regulations. In saying that expecting someone to have a certified food grade kitchen and all other necessary certifications to sell jam at a local stall does get a bit ridiculous.

And I'm not saying that uberdrivers shouldn't have to have any regulations, but I don't know if they should need all the same ones as a taxi company. Based on the way it is organised, there seems to be some grey areas.

Should carpooling groups be regulated too? Or is public safety only important because money is changing hands?
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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:40 am

The thing with Uber, AirBnB and others is that they are 100% corporate motivated. Their structure might appear cool from the perspective of a naive outsider, but it exists for no other reason than to minimise the responsibility of the company, particularly those at the top, while absolutely maximising revenue and profit. The video posted above sums it up pretty well.

And yes, involving a financial transaction does increase your obligations around health and safety (although that is shifting a bit in NZ). That said, carpooling groups have been under fire, a fatal drink driving crash in Dunedin a year or two back resulted from arrangements made through such a group.

A model like this could be great if it were run by a not-for-profit, but the point is that it's not, and that's kind of telling eh?

It's no accident, or technical evolution, that Uber etc are undermining traditionally established industries. And it's fuckin hard for legitimate business owners (many of whom are small/family businesses - think about motels etc) to survive in a market flooded with providers who aren't held to the same level of accountability around safety, tax etc. I've seen what brash operators, completely willingly ignorant of their obligations can do to small but vital pools of workers in the primary industries, and it's not good. The guys doing the work on the ground, as well as the customers paying for it, get thoroughly shafted. While old mate laughs all the way to the bank (or maybe his stash of cash under the mattress).

I agree 100% that many industries certainly do need a decent shakeup in terms of providing true value, and really looking after their workforce. Uber delivers exactly neither of these.

It will be interesting to see how Uber goes in NZ. Amongst other things, I don't see how they can successfully call their drivers independent contractors in NZ. From what I can see, the tests seem to fail there. Really I think the courts would see them as casual employees working for a piece rate.

Is AirBnB a thing in NZ yet? Given the long tradition of Kiwi families renting out empty holiday homes short term etc, and the proliferation of services that already exist to facilitate that, it'd be interesting to see how they get on there. We were keen to have a hoon with AirBnB in the states, but it pretty much always worked out cheaper to stay in a hotel
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby . » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:12 am

It boggles my mind how otherwise smart, politically engaged people fall over themselves for Uber, the embodiment of what's wrong with contemporary capitalism and libertarian brodudes.
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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:24 am

. wrote:It boggles my mind how otherwise smart, politically engaged people fall over themselves for Uber, the embodiment of what's wrong with contemporary capitalism and libertarian brodudes.


It has an app! That's disruptive.

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:30 am

Thanks for that post red switch, kind of what I was after

Red_switch wrote:carpooling groups have been under fire, a fatal drink driving crash in Dunedin a year or two back resulted from arrangements made through such a group


Next thing hitchhiking will be illegal

. wrote:It boggles my mind how otherwise smart, politically engaged people fall over themselves for Uber, the embodiment of what's wrong with contemporary capitalism and libertarian brodudes.


Not really. It's very easy to not know about/ignore the corporate backing behind it and see it simply as individuals supplying other individuals with a service, like selling/asking for something on a forum - but done way way way more efficiently. That idea is really appealing, but I guess, unfortunately, that's not exactly what it has become (or ever was???)
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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:40 am

I've used air B&B a few times here in Europe, always when I'm on a mad budget and can't get a hotel cheap enough, and so the places have all been a bit average (like staying at a friends house vs a hotel) - presumably if I had paid more I could have got something nicer.

Like you say red switch this service kind of already exists in NZ so might not catch on, but the global brand of air B&B will probably entice some holiday homes to jump onboard to get the tourists.
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Re: UBER

Postby yossarian » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:47 am

PertHJ wrote:Not really. It's very easy to not know about/ignore the corporate backing behind it and see it simply as individuals supplying other individuals with a service, like selling/asking for something on a forum - but done way way way more efficiently. That idea is really appealing, but I guess, unfortunately, that's not exactly what it has become (or ever was???)


It was never ever this. I'm kinda guessing you've never had a non PAYE job (ie been a contractor)?
I think this is where our communication is breaking down - you keep thinking of it as a whole bunch of "grandmas with home made jam at the market", but Uber is way closer to something like Subway. each store is an independent owner operated franchise - just like Uber.

Uber is a massive international corporation employing contractors - they aren't independent contractors either, I suspect (ie Uber wouldn't be ok with them charging people for rides and not putting it through the business, or setting different rates to those specified by Uber etc etc).

Normal taxi companies work the same way - the drivers are either contractors or franchisees. Fuck, most Mcdonalds are franchises but you'd never think of them as being small businesses would you?

This is the thinking that companies like Uber exploit to get people normally opposed to corporate hegemony onside - "oh, it's new and shiny and technologically forward so it must be utopian" when in fact it further erodes worker stability and rights - non independent contracting is a back door to removing wages, unionisation, holiday and sick pay, and basically all employer responsibility without giving the contractor any of their normal rights ie negotiating rates accordingly, working for multiple organisations, actually being your own boss etc.

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Re: UBER

Postby Red_switch » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:59 am

^ Yeah, that's a big part of it. You mostly do contract work eh yossarian?

Ofcourse, Uber *says* it's drivers are independent contractors. But they aren't. Not by any NZ definition anyway.

In terms of how Uber works, I reckon a better comparison would be to compare drivers with McDonalds front line staff being made contractors (which is kinda where some fast food companies were trying to go with zero-hour employment agreements).
I think it's lint.

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Re: UBER

Postby PertHJ » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:02 pm

Damn you can sound condescending sometimes yossarian. I've had non PAYE jobs, I'm currently a land lord ;).

Like I said, I'm sure the popularity is due to how it's perceived rather than what it is.
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