NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Politics and the rest of world's madness all in here!

Preference

Red/Blue/Fern/Southern Cross
2
13%
Black/Blue/Fern/Southern Cross
3
19%
Black/White/Fern
3
19%
Black/White/Koru
8
50%
 
Total votes: 16

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Tartanperil
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Tartanperil » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:12 am

So there's a new option vying against the Union-jack...

Image

Media Release:
"In a rare confrontation between two ancient foes, Clan McGillicuddy and Alfs Imperial Army will face off in a public display of absurd tomfoolery in the very centre of Martinborough, on the Tuesday after Christmas..."
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... 090126449&


Personally I reckon this version should be put up against Key's and Key's clip-art version in the next referendum :lol:

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9seconds
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby 9seconds » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:14 am

but isnt mcgillicuddy an irish name?
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby General Mutante » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:44 pm

I thought the McGillicuddys were all in old people's homes now.
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akaxo
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby akaxo » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:16 pm

that and the green party
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Max
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Max » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:51 pm

The McGillicuddys were just about having a laugh until the anarchists took over in the 80s... that kind of killed it.

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Dixon Cider A.C. » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:19 pm

Lol

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby PertHJ » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:56 pm

Haha pretty happy with the result, not because I like the existing flag ( I really don't) but because the alternative was fucking awful as was the process behind it.

If the proposed design had won the debate would be over and we would have been stuck with it for a long long time, so at least this way there's the possibility to revisit the debate in a few years and hopefully have a more sensible/responsible way of picking a new flag.

Also, FJK.
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Drax » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:13 am

I'll care about it as much as I care about our sorry-ass national anthem, which I probably wouldn't sing even if it was a banger.
Likewise, I'll shoot myself in the face before I become someone who flies the national flag in their front yard, so it makes little difference.

The real bummer is it being a huge distraction, a waste of money, and a premature waste of an opportunity to get a cool flag. Mozambique has an AK-47 on theirs for fuck's sake.

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby PertHJ » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:18 am

I find it kind of interesting that the no voters would be pretty well divided into two different camps, and that each side would think the others reasons for voting no are fucked. Would be interesting to know the numbers in each camp
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby 9seconds » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:02 pm

PertHJ wrote:at least this way there's the possibility to revisit the debate in a few years and hopefully have a more sensible/responsible way of picking a new flag.


hahaha yeh right.


people on both sides mostly voted for stupid reasons, we will be stuck with this outdated colonial rag for the rest of our petty lives.
personality politics strikes again, john key overestimated his own popularity and fucked up his own game by making it about him.

the fact he clearly manipulated the final 4 to get a flag he personally liked or tested well with foreign consumers or whatever the hell drove his process really fucked our chances of changing from that symbol of oppression and racism.

imagine if the israeli flag had to have the swastika ensign in the corner? or worse, that the israeli people voted to keep it in a referendum?

this really cements my view about the average NZer
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Max » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:32 pm

This one's not bad.

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby PertHJ » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:17 pm

This article sums it up pretty well I think

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/flag-failure-where-did-it-go-wrong

We expected the worst, but like George W Bush said, we "misunderestimated" them.

Well, that's that. The votes are counted and at last the shambolic flag saga is finally over, banished to eternal life as a series of pub quiz trivia questions. An embarrassing phase best forgotten like a national bad haircut.

As much as I've always wanted a change, in the end I think we made the right choice. So why do I feel so rotten?

I had a bad feeling about it from the start, and I wasn't alone. This time last year, anyone who has ever worked on any kind of corporate creative brief took one look at the chosen panel and their proposed process and saw that it would result in a mediocre, safe choice. It was creativity by committee, with no designers involved, and a process that allowed no room for development or refinement.

So we expected the worst, but like George W Bush said, we "misunderestimated" them. Things went from worst to "worster" as they lurched from one disastrous step to another. An inane and vague campaign to engage people about what they stood for led to the saddest road trip ever as the panel toured the country for public meetings with record low turnouts. No one was interested.

By the time the public was able to submit entries, the mood became more evident. I love a good Lazar kiwi, don't get me wrong, but the message was clear. In large numbers, we were treating the flag process as a huge joke.


Things continued to go downhill. The panel released a long list of 40 designs, and at this point the desired result became clear. Ferns, ferns, ferns and a couple more ferns. Literal symbols, and no meaningful attempts to engage or explore Māori ideas or motifs. In a wild coincidence, these ferns were exactly in line with what John Key had been saying he personally wanted all long. So strange.

John himself muddled in and out of the debate, never quite joining and never quite leaving, and in doing so left room for his most rabid detractors to form angry factions that only served to muddy the water and make the whole drama even less appealing.


From there the panel whittled the long list down to four choices. Well, three and a bit choices really. But that's when something interesting finally happened. I've seen the Red Peak episode retroactively described as elitist and ultimately a failure, but to me that misses the point. It's the one sliver of hope in the whole story. Red Peak was a moment when the public - not all the public, sure, but some of the public, actually connected with the process in a sincere and constructive way.

They took the ball and ran with it, and to me it's the only moment the campaign really came alive, however briefly. Red Peak was positive. Hopeful. It had some energy, some momentum and some genuine engagement.

But of course, as we know now, "some momentum" and "some engagement" doesn't win elections, does it? The rest of the story you know, or possibly have already blocked out. Red Peak gets onto the ballot, and the Lockwood fern that most closely resembles the current flag wins the first referendum. Does its similarity to the current flag suggest a lack of desire for change? Should we split up, Scooby?


From there, the Lockwood ferns are hoisted around the country. Hold on, they look odd. Is the blue right? They fix the blue and hoist them again. They still look odd. Celebrities are wrangled onto platforms. The government abuses designers and intellectuals in a last-ditch desperation play.

And here we are. Back where we started. I could sit here and smugly say 'I hate to say I told you so', but I would actually hate to say that. I feel exhausted. A little bit sick. I could, instead, try to tell you how much better things might have gone if we'd only listened to the design community, but to be honest, I don't know if even that would of made a difference. Sure, I have no doubt that a smarter design process could have lead to a stronger alternative choice. No doubt at all. I'd argue too that greater creative industry involvement would've helped the panel do a better job of telling the story of a new alternative in a way that might draw people in and make them feel invested and included.

But would this hypothetical super flag have won? Maybe not. Because at the heart of this whole saga was one question that never got answered.

Why?

Without a reason for change, the process was aimless and directionless from the start. There was no movement, no impetus. We weren't reacting to any identity-shattering or identity-defining event. We were choosing the curtains for a house we hadn't built yet. Why? No one really knew.


And I think all the problems come back to this lack of purpose. The pointless intro campaign. The lack of early engagement. The mocking entries. The bland long list. John Key's "I'm involved, I'm not involved" flailing. There was a lot of flailing. No one knew where we were going, or why. People need a reason to care.

So where to from here? While we're on a roll, should we do a snazzy new anthem next? Take it up a notch and have a go at choosing an official hat?

Me, I'm exhausted. I'm going to bed for a while. Wake me when we're a republic.
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby General Mutante » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:32 am

It was a vanity project for a cunt. It failed. The end.
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Subcide » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:14 am

General Mutante wrote:It was a vanity project for a cunt. It failed. The end.


I fapped to this
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Tartanperil
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Tartanperil » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:56 pm

Hey look, we still have the oppressive Butcher's Apron ownership stamp on NZ's flag, and Key is still easily top of the pops. #opportunitywastedcuttingyournoseofftospiteyourface

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby akaxo » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:16 pm

i've been in favour of changing the flag for as long as i can remember. i'd have voted for the new one if it didn't look so shit, like a $2 shop teatowel or a logo for some some business that got the CEO's daughter to design it as a school project. rather have the old one for another 10-20 years and change it to something decentish later than be stuck with the other crap option for a couple of generations at least.
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Max
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Max » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:26 pm

When Canada did it it wasn't just a personal crusade by their PM, he got representatives from all the opposition parties involved. One of the proposals looked like this:

Image

The Brit Canadians didn't like the fleur de lys, the French Canadians didn't like the Union Jack, someone came up with the idea of ditching both of them. The war vets ("we fought for that flag!") objected as they do, but Canadians came to love the flag over time. And they didn't even need a referendum.

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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby akaxo » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:41 am

damn, good move ditching those in the top corners
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby Subcide » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:02 am

Image

I like this one. All else can get fucked
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Re: NZ Flag Designs (final 4)...

Postby 9seconds » Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:16 pm

that ones stupid, youre stupid
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