NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

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NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby the croc » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:58 pm

Fuck off

NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'
NICK KRAUSE
Last updated 08:27 16/11/2012

The country's economic performance can be resurrected only by building more scale, including increasing our current 4.4 million population, a new report on boosting Kiwi exports said.

Prepared by NZIER for Export New Zealand, the Lifting Export Performance report said New Zealand's smallness and isolation stifled export growth.

Increasing the population by easing immigration rules would create bigger domestic companies which could translate into expansion into overseas markets, it said.

NZIER is on record as saying a starting point would be a population of 15 million by 2050, which would require a 2.5 per cent average annual growth rate compared with the average of 1 per cent over the past five years.

"If you've got large domestic markets to sell to, then you can create more scale and more efficiency before you launch into overseas markets," said New Zealand Institute of Economic Research deputy chief executive John Ballingall.

"Launching into overseas markets can be expensive and it can be risky and both are a lot easier to address if you're a bigger firm with a bigger balance sheet."

ExportNZ executive director Catherine Beard said the report was a "shining light" on what is holding New Zealand back and was a "sobering reality check" in showing how vital it was to get a policy framework in place.

"You can't fake scale. We need to grow the population through immigration and build companies of scale," she said.

"Once grown, the challenge is then keeping these companies in New Zealand so the country benefits from them."

Export growth, which has been below par in recent decades, was vital to lifting New Zealand's overall economic performance, the report said.

Its key recommendations included stronger collaboration between businesses to build export capability and a review of the effectiveness of existing grants and government assistance programmes to exporters.

It also suggested investigating rewarding high performers, which would incentivise Kiwi companies, and therefore jobs, to stay.

The Government's task now was to rebalance the economy away from domestic demand, public services and the non-tradeable sector and steer it back towards private investment and export growth. It suggested scaling back areas such as interest free student loans and Working for Families tax credits.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/bu ... for-growth
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby akaxo » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:27 pm

fuck off is putting it mildly
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Martli » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:56 pm

Jesus Christ. That is ridiculous.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby General Mutante » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:38 pm

Rid yourselves of rubbers. Discard your diaphragms. Purge those pills and deprive yourselves of Deprovera. Contraception is treason. I for one will be ordering my eggs sunny side up with a side order of spermatozoa henceforth.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby General Mutante » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:30 pm

Turbo fucking with no protection would do the job just as well, and yes, there have been many well documented decreases in population, not necessarily locally as far as it adds up because NZ is both young and a statistical blip but if you look wider and further back, you can see dents in that theory up until the industrial revolution stepped on the gas and scientific medicine got good at isolating diseases. The Spanish Flu was more virulent than the Black Death. If it had occurred in a less advanced era it could well have been an extinction level event or near to it.
Last edited by General Mutante on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Kev Japan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:02 pm

Get rooting, you lot!

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Matt » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:11 pm

Extinction Level Event would be better than 99% of the crap on TV.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby yossarian » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:12 pm

Or: stop fucking people over so much they leave the country. Reduced emigration would also boost the population with the bonus side effect of New Zealand being a better place to live (because of the increase in living standards for retention, not because reduced immigration is a good thing)

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Max » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:30 am

Has this guy been expelled from the punk rock club yet?
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Martli » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:29 am

The best part of being a New Zealander is the small population and having space from other people. I am willing to accept all the other bullshit that comes with being a New Zealander for that one good characteristic.

Presumably, economic growth (i.e. further entrenching ourselves in the economic ponzi scheme) will bring us a better quality of life, but I just don't see that being the case. All I see is more sterile apartment blocks, more "ticky tacky" suburbs like Churton Park where every house looks the same and is made to the same mediocre standards, more irrelevant igadgets we don't really need because buying them makes GDP look good and more people eating refined carbohydrates in their microwave meals (because that's a more economically efficient way of feeding larger populations) and so on.

Sure, to the types of people that only think about economics that probably is a better way of life, but lets be honest here - it's just shallow and pathetic.

Fuck turning out like England. I know 15 Million is a long way off 60-odd million, but that place just looks fucked to me.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby akaxo » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:36 am

ditto
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Yellow Romans » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:00 am

The most retarded thing about the whole theory that we need a bigger population to be able to grow the economy that it ignores the fact that there are countries with bigger populations than NZ who have economies that are in terrible shape. Look at Greece; what about Brazil, India or China? Do their bigger populations mean they have a better standard of living?
And given the shit-for-brains method of NZ city design (low population density suburbia makes public transport unfeasible, local shops and facilities are few and far between etc) we will see more of NZ take on a Los Angeles style look. Ak, Hamilton and Tauranga are eating up the surrounding countryside because of NZers very conservative approach to housing styles.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby the croc » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:09 am

From Garret Hardin's (original author of Tragedy of the Commons) The Ostrich Factor - Our Population Myopia:

Ask yourself this question: what features of your daily life do you expect to be improved by a further increase in population? Will commuting time to work be decreased? Will streets and highways be less crowded? Will the air be cleaner? Will it cost less to get sparkling water to drink? Will vacation spots be easier to get to and less crowded when you get there? Will the the extinction of interesting and valuable animals and plants come to an end? Will crime in the streets diminish? Will international conflicts taper off? There seems to be no end to the negative effects that can reasonably be expected from a further increase in population.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby xsfat » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:34 pm

More relevantly, growing population is not the best or only way to grow exports.
We do need bigger domestic companies and better incentives to support, retain and invest in our domestic businesses with export potential. Population is just one indirect factor.
Our population has grown from 3.68M in 1996 to 4.4M in 2011. It will be interesting to find out to what extent the increase in population has aided our exports.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby the croc » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:27 pm

Countries with a population close to 15 million:

Chile 17,114,000
Netherlands 16,609,518
Burkina Faso 16,287,000
Kazakhstan 16,197,000
Niger 15,891,000
Malawi 15,692,000
Mali 14,517,176
Guatemala 14,377,000
Ecuador 14,228,000
Cambodia 13,395,682
Zambia 13,257,000

What an incredible collection of mostly completely fucked economies.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Frank » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:14 am


"Once grown, the challenge is then keeping these companies in New Zealand so the country benefits from them."



Yea right thats gonna happen anyone for an Emersons?

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby nazi scum » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:23 am

The Government's task now was to rebalance the economy away from domestic demand, public services and the non-tradeable sector and steer it back towards private investment and export growth. It suggested scaling back areas such as interest free student loans and Working for Families tax credits.


ie Get rid of the schools and hospitals and send all our best produce overseas. That'll help the economy and the country.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Rabooyah » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:01 pm

sending the best produce overseas would help the economy
no ones gonna wanna buy gourmet nz produce if we send them shit :roll:

personally id like to eat that awesome produce instead of the rich making money of it, but thats me being selfish

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Rude Mike » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:36 pm

I wonder where they'll find all those people. . . . .

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby FC » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Racist.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Rude Mike » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:07 pm

How on earth is that racist? My gosh.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby xsfat » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:04 am

If you're suggesting that immigration is undesirable based on the country of origin of the immigrant, then yes, it is discrimination.
We have little immigration from USA. The top 2 sources of immigration to NZ is - UK (since 2003 to 2011) and India (since 2007 to 2011).
sorry for the spoiler...

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Red_switch » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:39 am

the croc wrote:Countries with a population close to 15 million:

Chile 17,114,000
Netherlands 16,609,518
Burkina Faso 16,287,000
Kazakhstan 16,197,000
Niger 15,891,000
Malawi 15,692,000
Mali 14,517,176
Guatemala 14,377,000
Ecuador 14,228,000
Cambodia 13,395,682
Zambia 13,257,000

What an incredible collection of mostly completely fucked economies.


Thanks for the accurate and insightful analysis ;)

But yeah, this whole idea is fucked.

The key to creaking it from export is to maintain control of the resource/product being exported, a la Norway. Relatively small population, bullshit geography, making a killing through what essentially amounts to ticket clipping and wealth re-distribution. The problem is those pesky capitalists.

We could be doing way better than we are from dairy as it is, and dairy itself is currently wobbling about at the top of a very slippery slope.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby nazi scum » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:39 am

Red_switch wrote:
The key to creaking it from export is to maintain control of the resource/product being exported, a la Norway. Relatively small population, bullshit geography, making a killing through what essentially amounts to ticket clipping and wealth re-distribution. The problem is those pesky capitalists.

We could be doing way better than we are from dairy as it is, and dairy itself is currently wobbling about at the top of a very slippery slope.


Our "relatively small population" and "bullshit geography" is what defines NZ I think our geography is not bullshit at all, what would you prefer to live in a desert with 15 million population, no schools or hospitals and all our wicked sand all gets sent overseas to the Australians and Chinese?. (Whoops Im being racist again mentioning ethnicity/a nationality)

We could get rid of all the cattle and replace them with refugees? They're a really good earn.

The problem is the pesky capitalists.

We have 13,000 unemployed in the Waikato alone, housing shortages, underfunded hospitals and schools and the theory is more people will help?
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Red_switch » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:31 pm

I rate our geography highly, but it isn't always business friendly. More-so than what they have in Norway, mind you, which was my point. With a similar population, and arguably more challenging Geography, they find ways of making thing work. They have some advantages in terms of market proximity, but fuck it, global village nowadays etc.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Kerry » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:16 pm

Red_switch wrote:I rate our geography highly


Pffft nup don't believe you.
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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby nazi scum » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:36 pm

Red_switch wrote:I rate our geography highly.

Red_switch wrote: bullshit geography
i say all islamic people are welcome, just leave your fuckin shitty religion at the door.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby Red_switch » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:01 pm

Context. Understand it.
I think it's lint.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby nazi scum » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:10 pm

I will try to take your contradictory statements in context
i say all islamic people are welcome, just leave your fuckin shitty religion at the door.

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Re: NZ 'needs population of 15 million for growth'

Postby the croc » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:56 pm

Norway has the advantage of historically being an oil rich country in which the profits were largely socialised. Hence the Norwegian Oil Fund (at $660 billion, the largest social program in the world) made $29 billion in the last quarter alone. Imagine if we did something similar with Fonterra, forestry, meat or fisheries?
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