Student loan/allowance changes

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri May 18, 2012 11:08 am

akaxo wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:akaxo, do you know Tartinpole?
na but i seem to remember him(?) saying something about being involved in the mcgillicudy serious party back in the day.



what dat?

some government party?
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akaxo
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Fri May 18, 2012 11:17 am

yes.

wikipedia wrote:The McGillicuddy Serious Party (McGSP) operated as a satirical political party in New Zealand politics during the late 20th century. Between 1984 and 1999, McGillicuddy Serious provided "colour" to New Zealand politics to ensure that citizens not take the political process too seriously. The party's logo, the head of a medieval court jester, indicated McGillicuddy Serious's status as a joke party.

The party stood candidates in the 1984, 1987, 1990, 1993, 1996 and 1999 General Elections; and the 1986, 1989, 1992, 1995, 1998 Local Body elections; along with various local-body and parliamentary by-elections and even some university student-association elections.

The McGSP gained its highest ever number of votes in New Zealand's last first-past-the-post (FPP) election in 1993, when it stood candidates in 62 out of 99 electorates and received 11,714 votes, or 0.61% of all votes cast.
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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri May 18, 2012 11:23 am

and how did that party go?

did it make a difference?
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri May 18, 2012 11:28 am

Hey Tartanperil,

in a event of me trying to find out who you are, i came across your trademe account :calavcalav:

do you still own the CRX?

:baton:



are you a boy racer or gUrl racer?
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akaxo
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Fri May 18, 2012 11:58 am

stalker
nazi scum wrote:i liked their policy of building castle walls around Hamilton and redirecting the Waikato River to form a moat
ha yeah there was a similar one in wgtn when i helped out with a mayoralty election. building a moat around the cbd or something. more to keep people in than out in that case though i think.
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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri May 18, 2012 1:05 pm

so whats the problem again?
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Tartanperil
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Tartanperil » Fri May 18, 2012 6:32 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:Hey Tartanperil,

in a event of me trying to find out who you are, i came across your trademe account :calavcalav:

do you still own the CRX?

:baton:

are you a boy racer or gUrl racer?

You're a fairly shite stalker. I've posted pics of myself here before. I'd guess you can probably tell my gender from those :lol:


J wrote:ive got the mental image of a 35-40 year old scottish psychologist who writes letters of dissatisfaction to the editor of local newspapers.

You're either a far better stalker than Cosmo, or have pretty good mental images. :)


J wrote:tartan is convinced im a selfish nazi and im pretty convinced (s)hes a worthless hippy.

If you want to personalise it that way - yes, believe that it's selfish for high income workers to not want to pay a little more tax so poor kiddies can go to uni/poly.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Sat May 19, 2012 8:31 am

well yeah there's nothing wrong with that. what the prob is is that by shortening the length of time allowances are available for means that students from lower income backgrounds will now be burdened with more debt. and that current loan holders took out their student loans, arranged mortgages, took jobs, had families etc based on a 10% pay back rate and the rate they have to pay it back has just been increased by 20%. unlike any other loan there is no option to negotiate how it's paid back and, while that change may seem small, for a couple on a recent graduate income with young kids it could make a hell of a lot of difference. and that for a young person about to get a med degree for example (or any other one that takes more than four years) having to borrow an extra years living costs combined with more of their income going to pay it back may make them decide to think twice about doing the degree in the first place. which is where the claims that the changes could make tertiary education less accessible for kids from low income families come from.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby General Mutante » Sat May 19, 2012 11:51 am

Jesus fucking wept. I thought young people embracing the ideological thrust of neo-liberalism went out of fashion a few years ago now. You know, like when it turned out to be a really shit idea like the more enlightened of us have been telling you for ages. Still, even the most broken system will still have its defenders. They mustn't get out much. Poor dears.

Next thing someone will be saying that they're "socially liberal and economically conservative."

Blerk.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Tartanperil » Sat May 19, 2012 12:43 pm

J wrote:i dont think i ever said that. im just of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with expecting to pay back money you borrow once you have an income that supports it.

Fine. And if done fairly I agree.

But I'm against welfare, education, or health care as loans. They are not fair and a barrier to access.

People should have access to all of the above when they need them. And that can all be paid for by progressive taxes:

If you do well out of your education and make millions, great, you'll pay a lot back through progressive taxes. If you don't do so well and end up stacking supermarket shelves for the rest of your life for what ever reason you'll not pay so much.

Having loans for welfare, health & education saddles people with debt that they may well not be able to afford. And then the government will start limiting access to the above services based on the ability to pay (they've already started by not giving people over 55 years old student loans). Paying welfare (ie unemployment, sickness, etc) only on the basis of being able to pay it back is totally retarded.

For those can can most afford to pay to those who most need it. It's hoe a society works. Even highly capitalist one like the USA rely on redistribution of wealth. Pretty simple really.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Tartanperil » Sat May 19, 2012 2:42 pm

J wrote:this is a good post and i agree with most of what you are saying, although I can honestly see why people over 55 cannot get student loans (im pretty sure that 55 will be within 10 years of my life expectancy, - or + 10 years - im under the impression that I am more than half done :)).

Yeah I can see why they cut 55s off as well; however, naturally I don't agree with it.

Firstly, it looks on tertiary education as purely vocational. What if the 58 year old has the solution to world peace or number of other things that are helpful to society but aren't going to lead to a job.

Secondly, 55 is too young. Given the retirement age will be raised there's at least 10 years work in them. That's enough to recover a fair bit of their "cost" from wages.

Thirdly, sod all actually do it - we can easily afford the cost of them and all other students with that small increase in tax on income over $80,000. Besides most of them who do study at older age are unemployed rather than leaving work to study at 55+, so I'd rather pay them to eat while they study rather pretty much the same cost of them sitting on the dole until they're of retirement age.

Lastly, it's especially mean introducing this rule during a recession where many 55s need retraining or up-skilling to find work again (especially those previously in low-skill poorly paid lobs). Given they've paid tax all their life so that their would be funding for them to retrain when they needs it fucking stinks imho.

I think at the very least 55+ should get 1 year funded to do a retraining course at (eg at 'tech), rather than nothing.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Marrow » Sat May 19, 2012 3:33 pm

Tartanperil wrote: Besides most of them who do study at older age are unemployed rather than leaving work to study at 55+, so I'd rather pay them to eat while they study rather pretty much the same cost of them sitting on the dole until they're of retirement age.

Backed.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Huey » Sat May 19, 2012 9:25 pm

J wrote:
Tartanperil wrote:
J wrote:i dont think i ever said that. im just of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with expecting to pay back money you borrow once you have an income that supports it.

Fine. And if done fairly I agree.

But I'm against welfare, education, or health care as loans. They are not fair and a barrier to access.

People should have access to all of the above when they need them. And that can all be paid for by progressive taxes:

If you do well out of your education and make millions, great, you'll pay a lot back through progressive taxes. If you don't do so well and end up stacking supermarket shelves for the rest of your life for what ever reason you'll not pay so much.

Having loans for welfare, health & education saddles people with debt that they may well not be able to afford. And then the government will start limiting access to the above services based on the ability to pay (they've already started by not giving people over 55 years old student loans). Paying welfare (ie unemployment, sickness, etc) only on the basis of being able to pay it back is totally retarded.

For those can can most afford to pay to those who most need it. It's hoe a society works. Even highly capitalist one like the USA rely on redistribution of wealth. Pretty simple really.


this is a good post and i agree with most of what you are saying, although I can honestly see why people over 55 cannot get student loans (im pretty sure that 55 will be within 10 years of my life expectancy, - or + 10 years - im under the impression that I am more than half done :)).


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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby General Mutante » Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 am

He is essentially an evil cyborg kept alive by cutting edge technology and his own grim will, so he's not a typical example.
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Postby Hamtown Dave » Sun May 20, 2012 3:50 pm

For those wondering, Gareth Morgan's UBI would be funded by a tax on 3% of the value of any assets. This approach might also deter stagnant investment and encourage taxpayers to shift their money to more productive areas of the economy.

Say what you like about it, but Morgan has the basic premise correct: our tax system could do with a ground up rebuild.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Red_switch » Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 pm

Yea it could, but he's not the only one putting such ideas forward, and he is a total cunt.
I think it's lint.

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Postby Hamtown Dave » Mon May 21, 2012 12:08 am

Did he rape your mates uncle or something?

Jks... but for reals what'd he do? I don't know much about him other than reading his herald column and picking up his book but never getting round to reading it.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Thu May 24, 2012 3:04 pm

looks like they've gone further than just cutting the allowance back to four years, also to be no longer available for any post-grad study.

meanwhile in auckland today:
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Thu May 24, 2012 4:26 pm

what does postgraduate mean in this context?
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Thu May 24, 2012 4:38 pm

anything that requires you to have completed a degree, such as a BA or BSc which takes three years, e.g. a masters or PhD etc.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Thu May 24, 2012 5:00 pm

chur
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Thu May 24, 2012 5:03 pm

worth noting that they're also changing the requirements to become a teacher to needing a post grad degree
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby the croc » Fri May 25, 2012 4:13 am

You need a masters?

Or just a post-grad diploma in teaching like it's always been?
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby akaxo » Fri May 25, 2012 7:13 am

i haven't seen details of the changes but the govt said they were changing the requirements so that teachers needed a post-grad qualification so yeah presumably a masters or something otherwise there'd be nothing to announce. part of their "quality over quantity" bullshit to justify increasing class sizes.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Red_switch » Fri May 25, 2012 8:14 am

the croc wrote:You need a masters?

Or just a post-grad diploma in teaching like it's always been?


Well they've said degree, and a diploma isn't a degree.

Could be a good or a bad thing really.
I think it's lint.

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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby the croc » Fri May 25, 2012 9:09 am

Yeah I get that, wasn't sure if it was badly reported or not. I can't find any details on this apart from Hekia Parata's quote. Nothing on teachnz.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby FrankGrimes » Fri May 25, 2012 9:21 am

Lame. Hopefully doing masters next year. Not that I qualified for the allowance to begin with so I'd have had to pay everything back anyway.
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby Fiction & Falsehood » Fri May 25, 2012 9:34 am

im very seriously considering a degree in the mid term future, i dont wanna still be busting my hump if i live til 50
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Re: Student loan/allowance changes

Postby the croc » Fri May 25, 2012 9:47 am

There aren't too many people over 60 that are still able to do manual labour jobs.
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