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What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:52 pm
by BigNanaJez
New Zealand has a major problem and that is that our long held rule of law is falling away.

While the current National government has worked very hard to erode people's rights, it was built on a precedent set by the previous Labour government, thus an independent solution needs to be found.

The link below has a great deal of detail around the governments latest move which is to retrospectively change the law. basically the Police acted illegally, knew so, and now the government will change the law to make what they did, in the past, legal.

http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/ur ... eme-court/

I have a major problem with this. So my ears are open to any opinions/ideas out there.

Awareness is also a problem and I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last ten years. I invite everyone to start a public political conversation this week.

It's pretty much political Fight Club.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:18 pm
by the croc
They're chucking it through under urgency too. I would be interested to know how much legislation has been passed under urgency by this government compared to other governments. Seems like they do it a lot.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:23 pm
by Red_switch
Was it here a while back someone posted a comparison of legislation passed under urgency between nat and the last lab. govt? The difference was heaps.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:24 pm
by Red_switch
I know a few people who complain about govt inflicted shit all the time, yet they'd "rather not" actually discuss politics. WEirdas

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:36 pm
by akaxo
the data about the use of urgency is out there croc, shouldn't be hard to find, i've linked to/shown the graphs in other threads here. basically yes they have used it ridiculously more often than previous governments deliberately to bypass the public input and select committee stages. and it's a trend that was well under way before it needing to be used for earthquake related stuff etc so that's no excuse.

i'm fast approaching the conclusion that the majority of new zealanders deserve to get shat on from on high. when polls show that when comparing policies people prefer the left/labour party policies yet when asked who they'd vote for say national because they like key; when policy announcements from left parties get ignored by the media and fluff pieces about what key like's for breakfast and things of the rugby get prominence; kind of doesn't give you much confidence in new zealand society. maybe people need a swift rogering from a police baton to wake the fuck up.

i haven't read all the info on the law change that's happening now so can't really comment on the details yet.

the point about the collusion between the two major parties on significant legislation that erodes long fought for freedoms is relevant and true. realistically the best i think we can hope for to minimise that is a labour/green based coalition with as big a green portion as possible.

BigNanaJez wrote:Awareness is also a problem and I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last thirty years.
can take this back to the neo-lib reforms of the early eighties imo.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:13 pm
by the croc

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:05 pm
by xsfat
The best and most detailed commentary:
http://www.laws179.co.nz/2011/09/covert ... overt.html

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:20 pm
by akaxo
yeah what J said

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:08 pm
by Marrow
for people not following the link
in its first two years National pushed 17 laws through without allowing public submissions - compared to the four or five each term when Labour was in government.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:10 pm
by noteven
Seems like national's theme is "I do what I want"
I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them. Who are they polling? No one asked my opinion. Pretty bullshit.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:49 pm
by Marrow
speak to more white collar middle class professionals, especially ones that don't actually care about politics but 'their workmates told them labour means more benefits' or something

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:19 pm
by noteven
So fucked off at people who are so anti welfare. Sometimes people fall down and need a hand getting back up. Apparently this is a bad thing?

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:59 pm
by Hamtown Dave
noteven wrote:Seems like national's theme is "I do what I want"
I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them. Who are they polling? No one asked my opinion. Pretty bullshit.


It could be that you've unconsciously weeded national voting types out of your circle of acquaintances. That is extremely excusable.

Rex is ok though.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:08 pm
by noteven
I have two friends who are studying politics and are young nats and all "national yay!" Almost wanna never speak to them again for this reason alone.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:33 am
by akaxo
don't blame ya, i'm finishing off a pols degree at the moment and know the type.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:06 am
by subvert
i'm fast approaching the conclusion that the majority of new zealanders deserve to get shat on from on high. when polls show that when comparing policies people prefer the left/labour party policies yet when asked who they'd vote for say national because they like key; when policy announcements from left parties get ignored by the media and fluff pieces about what key like's for breakfast and things of the rugby get prominence; kind of doesn't give you much confidence in new zealand society. maybe people need a swift rogering from a police baton to wake the fuck up.

well said , for fucks sake are people now so numb in the head in this country that they vote a smiling jerk in , instead looking at that parties policies and the wider picture. I used to think people in NZ were smarter than this. I think JK is nothing but a illiterate wanker .

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:54 am
by Livestock
subvert wrote:I think JK is nothing but a illiterate wanker .


.. but yeah, in all seriousness.. I've got a hunch the reason these retards will get in again (apart from having alot to do with Phil [I have no opinion on anything] Goof)
is actually partly representative/reflective of the middle class racism in NZ.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:22 am
by General Mutante
When I worked for Telecom, my main hobby apart from seeing how far I could violate the dress code before the boss cried was taking great pleasure in telling the Young Nat types I worked with that I always vote as far left as possible because I like to see their hard earned tax dollars go to poor people. Used to fuck them off that I'd talk to deros in the smoking area outside too.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:15 am
by BigNanaJez
Yes unfortunately the growth of the middle class has created a vacuum between rich and poor. It used to be these people lived on the same street and understood each other, now they don't. The problem with this scenario is that people point the finger at each other, the rich blame the poor and visa versa.

At the very most basic level, I think of the left putting people first and the right putting money first. I think now that more people have money, the more we have people who put money first and thus vote accordingly.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:26 pm
by NOIDEAWOTEVER
Terrorism is so 2000's...

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:26 pm
by NOIDEAWOTEVER
But seriously it's time for the Police to admit they fucked it up and these people are not actually Terrorists. And this Government's George Bush style of dealing with inconvienient laws is very worrying to say the least. I really hope NZ doesn't go down the same road as the US and it's baby brother Australia and use this whole 'War on Terror' bollocks as a convienient way to increase control over people.

Unfortuantly there doesn't seem to be a strong enough political party out there right now to change the Govt anytime soon.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:36 pm
by toothbrush
as much as i hate to admit it, and it is contrary to my actual views and ideals: new zealand needs National to abuse its power, change laws whenever they want, generally fuck over everyone and to have police get away with everything. This is because no one here really does anything about anything except a few people complain and less people do anything about it. If they do this then hopefully more people will start actually giving a shit, stop being pussies and have some interest in and do something about what is going on with the governance of they country they live in and the decisions that are getting made for them.

AKA a wake up call.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:56 pm
by General Mutante
Plus it would make me fully cream my undies to see Key being helicoptered to safety from the top of an embassy as the peasants revolt.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:59 pm
by akaxo
General Mutante wrote:Plus it would make me fully cream my undies to see Key being helicoptered to the coast from the top of an embassy as the peasants revolt and dropped from a height onto some rocks.
fixed.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:34 pm
by Horus
Why don't we all start referring to Key by his full name (as we do with major "criminals" - or ppl who are accused of being major crims) like Arthur Alan Thomas?

Yes, John Phillip Key is a smiley douchebag. :x

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:13 pm
by Tartanperil
BigNanaJez wrote:... and now the government will change the law to make what they did, in the past, legal.

...

I think New Zealanders reluctance to talk politics in a public setting is at the root of allowing our governments to act as they have done in the last ten years.

Two of my personal hates there.

I'd be all for start-a-political-disscussion-week, but as those who know me will no doubt attest it's like that every week with me. :lol:



noteven wrote:I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them...

Here's how: http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/the-hollow-men-2008



BigNanaJez wrote:Yes unfortunately the growth of the middle class has created a vacuum between rich and poor. It used to be these people lived on the same street and understood each other, now they don't. The problem with this scenario is that people point the finger at each other, the rich blame the poor and visa versa.

Sort of. National have cottoned on how to exploit this; see vid above if you haven't already.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:08 am
by scott penk
Horus wrote:Why don't we all start referring to Key by his full name (as many girls, and some guys who think its cute/risque call themselves on facebook - or ppl who are accused of being major crims) like Arthur Alan Thomas?

Yes, John Phillip Key is a smiley douchebag. :x

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:57 am
by steeltoedsneakers
Tartanperil wrote:
noteven wrote:I keep wondering why national seems to be doing so well in the polls when basically no one I've spoken to would vote for them...

Here's how: http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/the-hollow-men-2008

Can I get a barometer reading of what people think about Nicky Hager round these here parts? It seems that people listen to him when he says what they want to hear, but when he writes his SAS tell-all he's dismissed as a bit of a nutter.. Is this the papers talking? Or is there real-world sentiment behind this?

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:08 am
by Tartanperil
Can't say as I know nothing about the his SAS tell-all; but at a guess I'd say media beat-up as initially most media treated him as a bit of a nutter or at least the friendly face of nutters - until he pretty much demonstrated he was a better investigative journalism than many of them.

Re: What's happening to the rule of law?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:30 am
by akaxo
yeah that^ has far more integrity than all the msm combined imo