pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

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pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:58 pm

Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Lurch » Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:52 pm

If cops had guns (the police spokesman had a hard on for the idea on 3 news) then the douchebags will get guns too. Instead of being hacked up a bit and being in hospital, he would have been shot in the head and be at the morgue.

/obvious

After 3 minutes of watching COPS I think it is safe to say that we want to avoid American "Policing" at all costs.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:33 pm

you didnt read the article did you? you probably meant this.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-storie ... h-machete/
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby bruce wayne » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:31 am

isn`t the name of the murderer a bit of a give away

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby scott penk » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:46 am

yeah, never trust anyone with the last name brown

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:05 am

Image?


the article in yesterdays herald about this incident really sucked, they referred to the killing as the result of 'carrying a knife in public' trying to link shit like this to people with various edged tools so the police can persecute the innocent secure in the law.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Sariputra » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:29 am

Police Officers are humans too.
Realise that mind cannot be satisfied but always seeks more, thus increasing unwholesomeness and wrong doings.

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby YULE » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:47 pm

A police spokesman was on radio live this morning arguing for police to be armed, so i'm guessing that select committee review thing is saying that they should be armed. In the instance with the machete cop I doubt it would have helped in the slightest. If you couldn't radio for help how would you shoot a gun?
2 cops in a car though...

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby arkie » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:57 pm

a number of officers (including the Senior Officer in charge of investigating this incident), have said that arming country police would not prevent things like this happening.

I don't like the arguement that they need them for protection, or that armed cops would be a disincentive to crazies attacking them. Following the logical train on this, who's to say that citizens can't arm themselves for protection too, if it's okay for cops...

It's true, it will just end up in a escalation of the violence involved in crime.

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby akaxo » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:02 pm

the only way i'd be happy with cops being armed is if all citizens had the right to be too but really not that keen on that option.

greg o'connor, the police association guy, said on telly this morning that if the cops were armed it would be enough of a deterrent to stop attacks. but then again he gives the impression that he wouldn't he happy until all cops are in full body armour with automatic weapons permanently attached. given that the cop was macheted from behind while walking back to his car i'd say that all him having a side arm would likely have meant is that the two kids would have stolen it before leaving and then have been armed possibly leading to a much messier situation.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:07 pm

^fuckin good point, but a sane rationale isnt necessary to justify more laws tougher penalties and greater violence and brutality toward the populace, they just need incidents like this, of which, as they treat us worse and worse, theres going to be more and more of.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby akaxo » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:21 pm

there's a good read by tim watkin, an award winning journalist, on this here: http://pundit.co.nz/content/fear-loathi ... or-that-is

Stop people smacking their kids? Nanny state gone mad! Give police more guns? Sure! Why not? Honestly...

I heard my old mate, lawyer Greg King, on radio this morning saying that half of all police officers killed in the US are killed by their own guns. I've never been able to find that sort of evidence, but Richard Prebble once told me a story from when he was Minister of Police that backs up King's line.

He asked about whether police should be armed as a new minister with an open mind. The Police Commissioner at the time said to him he didn't want it and wouldn't stand for it, his reason being that more officers were likely to die, shot by their own weapons.

All of this should give us pause. Life and death arguments shouldn't be spun or made out of misplaced sympathy. Sympathy for anyone, that is.

Which is why I'm repeatedly appalled by the way Police Association President Greg O'Connor is so quick to use violence against his members to push his political agenda. Every time an officer is attacked, regardless of the circumstances, O'Connor whips out his drum and starts banging.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby arkie » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:45 pm

^ good read, that.

I think it may be necessary for Greg O'Connor to be held at gun point, by police or otherwise, just to see if it makes him feel safer.

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:53 pm

Lurch wrote:If cops had guns (the police spokesman had a hard on for the idea on 3 news) then the douchebags will get guns too. Instead of being hacked up a bit and being in hospital, he would have been shot in the head and be at the morgue.

/obvious

After 3 minutes of watching COPS I think it is safe to say that we want to avoid American "Policing" at all costs.


Comparisons with America really don't stand up to scrutiny. In the US the general population have access to all sorts of firearms, both legally and illegally. It is not the same in NZ, nor would it be if we armed the police. The key difference is gun control, and the fact that we live on an island.

Currently, our police occasionally get stuck in situations where the odds are stacked against them. If you pick up a machete, chances are you're more heavily armed than any cops in the vicinity. Any move to arm the police is an attempt to redress that imbalance, and shouldn't be seen as a reactive attempt to retrospectively work out how any specific attack could have been prevented (although that seems to be the shape that the debate always takes).

Would the cop have been less likely to have been attacked with a machete if people knew that police officers are routinely armed with guns?

And if the police do get guns, where will 'the douchebags' get theirs from? NZ is not the US..

I'm not advocating that the police should be routinely armed, but scaremongering takes this debate nowhere.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby arkie » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:02 pm

this section of the article akoxo posted addresses some of those questions
The arguments in favour, as far as I can see, are ones of equality and deterrence. That is, 'give the cops a fighting chance' and 'if the bad guys know the good guys are armed, they won't do bad in the first place'.

The latter argument seems naive, especially given the access that police already have to guns and the high profile afforded armed police responses to crime. I suspect that a poll of those who have committed an armed crime would show that they know a thing or two about the resources police have.

I'd also ask, where do we stop? Why not give the police machine guns, if you want a real deterrent? And is the police officer as deterrent really a better option than police officer as role model, earning the respect of the community, rather than the fear?

As for equality, if this was a real priority, wouldn't it make more sense to remove the number of guns from society – so that everyone has less access to guns – rather than increase the number of guns out there? Most illegal, unlicensed guns start out as legal, licensed guns, and we have hundreds of thousands of them in this country.


What's that you say? Don't impinge on the rights of responsible gun owners? Well then, don't impinge on my right to raise a family in a society which says no to more and more guns.


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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:10 pm

arkie wrote:this section of the article akoxo posted addresses some of those questions
The arguments in favour, as far as I can see, are ones of equality and deterrence. That is, 'give the cops a fighting chance' and 'if the bad guys know the good guys are armed, they won't do bad in the first place'.

The latter argument seems naive, especially given the access that police already have to guns and the high profile afforded armed police responses to crime. I suspect that a poll of those who have committed an armed crime would show that they know a thing or two about the resources police have.

I'd also ask, where do we stop? Why not give the police machine guns, if you want a real deterrent? And is the police officer as deterrent really a better option than police officer as role model, earning the respect of the community, rather than the fear?

As for equality, if this was a real priority, wouldn't it make more sense to remove the number of guns from society – so that everyone has less access to guns – rather than increase the number of guns out there? Most illegal, unlicensed guns start out as legal, licensed guns, and we have hundreds of thousands of them in this country.


What's that you say? Don't impinge on the rights of responsible gun owners? Well then, don't impinge on my right to raise a family in a society which says no to more and more guns.



Again, lets be realistic. Its obvious that the police don't need machine guns. That's where we stop. The police get what they need: enough firepower to deal with people who come at them with knives, machetes, golf clubs, cut down hunting rifles, etc.

It only becomes an arms race if the other side can keep up. Unless handguns become widely more available in NZ, I don't see that happening.

And while its a nice idea that the police should 'earn the respect' of the community as a 'role model', it is also incredibly naive.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby arkie » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:31 pm

I see your point and maybe my highlighting wasn't well placed.
The writer of the article is being facetious about the machine guns, but they make some valid points, in particular;

people engaged in serious armed crime are already aware of police access to firearms. It has not appeared to have detered them. Therefore armed police are not a deterent.

Most illegal, unlicensed firearms were once legal, licensed firearms. The more weapons in the country, irrespective of who holds them, makes the country more dangerous for everyone.

Also, elsewhere in the article he mentions that former Police Minister Richard Prebble claimed at least half of the police officers shot in the US were shot with their own weapons.

I'm all for balanced and reasoned debate, but that's not what is being presented by Greg o'Connor. Thankfully jonkey, Howard Broad and even Crusher Collins all believe fully-armed frontline officers to unnecessary.

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby akaxo » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:34 pm

broad is appearing increasingly on to it to me, i suspect his upcoming retirement has freed him up to say some stuff that he would have been hesitant to earlier.

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:I'm not advocating that the police should be routinely armed, but scaremongering takes this debate nowhere.
agreed, should try and get that message through to greg o'connor though. when interviewed live on tv the other day he was asked if the images of the cop after the machete attack were among the worst he'd seen. his response was that it was not and such attacks were in fact common and that the police minister personally visits wounded cops every weekend. if that isn't scaremongering on this issue i don't know what is. it was because the machete attack was unusual that made it news worthy.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:37 pm

Yeah okay I mostly agree with that.

The thing is, every time this happens, we get a bunch of people who want the police armed so that criminals can be 'dealt with' fronting up against a bunch of people who think that any expansion of police resourcing is a step towards some sort of police state. And while those blowhards butt heads over their non-negotiable political opinions, the real matter of how we best protect the police, who are there to protect us all, goes unanswered..
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby akaxo » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:06 pm

bit more to it than just protecting the police though imo, need to consider impacts on society as a whole otherwise the body armour and automatic weapons is the obvious answer but i'm sure you're aware of that.

you'll probably like this too, i sure did, first comment on the pundit post i linked to:
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:29 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:It only becomes an arms race if the other side can keep up. Unless handguns become widely more available in NZ, I don't see that happening.

oh my shit, who is being naive?
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby crain » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:05 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:It only becomes an arms race if the other side can keep up. Unless handguns become widely more available in NZ, I don't see that happening.



hahahahahaha
i don't know anything about crime in NZ and i' don't even live there but i'm fairly sure you can buy guns illegally there
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:38 pm

sure can, .22 pistols are relatively common in tales ive heard, but im not a crim either, god only knows where they come from, but i do know that we live in a country with an open border, we get visitors on private boats all the time, not many of them dont carry personal weapons, and i wouldnt like to hazard a guess how many would be for sale if suddenly there was an active market.

FJ is just on his same old government apology run again, nothing they or the cops do is wrong and all the laws in NZ could do with a good old tighten up, int that right dave?
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Ice-P » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:21 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:the police, who are there to protect us all


:lol:
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby General Mutante » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:56 pm

I for one am glad that we have someone to tell us that everything is in our best interests and there's no point struggling anyway. Who knows what might happen without such a calming voice to soothe us into accepting our lot.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby ghetto ninja » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:31 pm

KCs and the Mungies both have pretty large aresenals. I worked with a guy who was a shooter for the Mungies and he said they ended up with a lot of russian guns in the 80's. If the cops are tooled up the gangs will tool up. It really is that simple.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Sicinius » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:02 pm

FJ is just on his same old government apology run again, nothing they or the cops do is wrong and all the laws in NZ could do with a good old tighten up, int that right dave?


Mm.. dogmatic, reactionary, vitriol and hyperbole-spitting etc..

Lucky FJ is here to offer us these things.

Eh?

Know what I mean?

** is just on his same old government hatred run again, nothing they or the cops do is ever right and all the laws in NZ shouldbe dismantled, 'cause the cops only rape and torture people - they've even been known to collect the skins of dead children and hang them in their attics. int that right?


PS arming policemen is retarded and there is an endless vault of evidence to support this.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby The Ost » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:08 pm

J wrote:cant even keep track of how many people the cops have raped and killed over the last few years.


so that makes it okay in your book?
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby General Mutante » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:56 pm

Sicinius wrote:
FJ is just on his same old government apology run again, nothing they or the cops do is wrong and all the laws in NZ could do with a good old tighten up, int that right dave?


Mm.. dogmatic, reactionary, vitriol and hyperbole-spitting etc..

Lucky FJ is here to offer us these things.

Eh?

Know what I mean?

** is just on his same old government hatred run again, nothing they or the cops do is ever right and all the laws in NZ shouldbe dismantled, 'cause the cops only rape and torture people - they've even been known to collect the skins of dead children and hang them in their attics. int that right?


PS arming policemen is retarded and there is an endless vault of evidence to support this.


Well I hope he's actually getting paid for it. I have delivered shameless propaganda and garnered support and moneys for a number of shonky institutions and there's no way I would have done it if they hadn't crossed my palm with a considerable amount of silver. Even then I could only take it so far before self-hatred and the ever present taste of sick in the back of my mouth forced me to cut it out.
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Re: pigs use stabbing incident to encourage police state.

Postby Sicinius » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:11 pm

Observe FJ's posts in this thread, or generally, then take a looksie at the thread title's of Phil's current affairs threads, and you tell me who is more..

Actually forget it.
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