'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

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'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:30 am

Justice Minister Simon Power has introduced the Criminal Procedure (Reform and Modernisation) Bill.

Labour supports it in 'principle'.

There are positives to the bill, but as far as I see it, one glaringly huge negative; the raising of the threshold for Jury trials from charges carrying a sentence of three months to charges carrying a sentence of three years.

refs:
http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/labour- ... le-3898844
http://thestandard.org.nz/criminal-procedure-bill/
http://www.3news.co.nz/Rights-to-jury-t ... fault.aspx
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... -up-trials
http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/?p=3066

Discuss.

(edit: added more links)

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby geneterror » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:44 am

Sounds good to me.
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:12 am

I'm trying to find out what charges carry a minimum sentence between three months and three years in prison.

If anyone else knows about it I'd be really interested to find out more.

My concern is that three years is a long time to spend in prison, drastically different from three months, and under this proposed legislation, sentences of less than three years are no longer 'serious' cases and do not allow the option of a jury trial. A jury trial is a fundamental right, 'trial by a jury of your peers' is enshrined in English Common Law (which we have inherited) and the US Constitution.

I know that in regards to drug charges in New Zealand, jury trials more often find in favour of the defendant, especially with cannabis. Going to prison because I can no longer request a jury trial for my (hypothetical) possession for supply charge is more than a little disconcerting.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:31 am

one more baby step towards the powers of a police state.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:40 am

That's it for sure.

The removal of the right to silence is a concern too.

They're getting us to assume position.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby beef666 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:15 am

This seems bullshit. More people will get in shit for stupid things because officials want to push less paper? Get fucked.
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Vice-President of the Law Society is onto it.

Postby arkie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:16 pm

The Vice-President of The Law Society, Anne Stevens, is pretty critical of the proposed bill.

Here are some choice bits;

The Government's latest Justice Reform Bill is an "extremely worrying piece of legislation" that tramples "all over" people's rights


The Bill breached the Bill of Rights in most of its most significant proposals, all without any directive from the electorate to do so.


The Bill of Rights guaranteed a person's right to be present at their own trial.

"It would be quite an event with no accused. There'd just be a prosecutor and a judge. That's the sort of efficient regime totalitarians dream about. You could do it in half a day. You could have them executed by dinner time ... if you could find them."


The clause requiring the court to take into account a defendant's compliance with court procedure at sentencing meant, for example, a rapist who did everything by the letter in court could be rewarded for that at sentencing.


The right to be tried by jury for crimes with a maximum penalty of more than three months' imprisonment was also guaranteed under the Bill of Rights.

"We are talking about people's rights and their liberty here. It's all very well, until you are accused of something."


Ref:
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/13647 ... page=0%2C1

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby anthony » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:54 pm

the law commision is dead against it ,what is the point of having a bill of rights if it gets bulldozed over all the time ,i am getting fucked off with (and worried) this governments tendency to tinker with long held basic civil liberties ,we should be a little more than concerned ,because i bet there is more to come.

Yet the the sheeple in this country will accept everything lying down .

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Mattsturbate » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:04 pm

Simon Power wrote:The system is clogged and needs to be fixed, it’s unacceptable that there are at least 43,000 unnecessary court appearances each year, and that it takes an average of 16 months to complete a jury trial in the High Court and 12 months in the District Court.”


I'd like to know what he classes as an "unnecessary court appearance". Also, surely a well-considered restructuring of the jury process would be a much better solution than trampling over people's rights?

Oh wait, sorry forgot there is a National government in power. Suppose being smart about it would cost money.

Just as a side note, saw this letter to the editor in the Listener just now:
The Government has responded to threats from Warner Bros by passing instant legislation. The same government says it needs two years of further 'research' before it will consider lowering the blood alcohol limit for drivers.

:lol:

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:21 pm

Yeah I'm with you about the drink/drive situation, it's shameful to see how our government is in the pocket of the liquor industry.

I heard something on national radio the other day (sorry no refs) about calls for the government to tighten the liquor laws for the rugby world cup to prevent some of what was seen at eden park a couple of weeks ago (whenever it was).

The spokesman did what jonkey recommends and avoided saying anything.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:30 pm

I'm interested to see that Labour supports this bill in principle..

Labour's associate justice spokesman Charles Chauvel said Parliament needed to give careful consideration to every aspect of the bill.

"There are certainly aspects of the system that need reform, the proposed change in threshold for jury trials makes sense when comparing the situation in New Zealand to that of other countries. In principle, we support it," Chauvel said.


And of course the Law Society is going to be against it.. jury trials are where they get to play Denny Crane and work over the herpaderps on the jury who weren't smart enough to get off service..
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:22 pm

watching 3 news tonight, so disturbing to be reminded how much it paints this country as a left wing experiment gone wrong that needs sorting out by some good old no nonsense center right types.

course those types arent around anymore and we have 'experienced businessmen' ready to step into place, these people are rich, if they ever get in trouble with the law they pay their way out of it, the fee to get off almost anything is about $1000, the law system is basically just another industry, we are already in a country where you can recieve jail time for not paying to register your car... its only going to get worse.

meanwhile cops, portrayed on TV as stoic good guys doing a hard job, are out beating up teenage boys and harrassing the girls.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Red_switch » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:21 pm

xSUSPECTx wrote:watching 3 news tonight, so disturbing to be reminded how much it paints this country as a left wing experiment gone wrong that needs sorting out by some good old no nonsense center right types.

course those types arent around anymore and we have 'experienced businessmen' ready to step into place, these people are rich, if they ever get in trouble with the law they pay their way out of it, the fee to get off almost anything is about $1000, the law system is basically just another industry, we are already in a country where you can recieve jail time for not paying to register your car... its only going to get worse.

meanwhile cops, portrayed on TV as stoic good guys doing a hard job, are out beating up teenage boys and harrassing the girls.


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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby General Mutante » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:37 pm

There's something deeply petty and authoritarian in the New Zealand psyche. It's only a matter of time before that tendency reaches it's natural conclusion.
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Dan Ashcroft » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:06 pm

I almost wonder if I wouldn't prefer a judge to a jury...

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:jury trials are where they get to play Denny Crane and work over the herpaderps on the jury who weren't smart enough to get off service..
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xsfat » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:33 am

what is the point of having a bill of rights if it gets bulldozed over all the time ,i am getting fucked off with (and worried) this governments tendency to tinker with long held basic civil liberties ,we should be a little more than concerned

The following was from Minister Simon Power's speech to the Bill of Rights Symposium earlier this month
section 7 ensures that possible inconsistencies in proposed legislation are brought to the attention of Parliament. [...]
The idea was that, if Parliament decided to limit fundamental rights and freedoms, then it must be fully informed about what it was doing. [...]

the UN Human Rights Committee also expressed concern that legislation is enacted notwithstanding a report from the Attorney-General that it's inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Act.

The committee was interested to know the outcome of reports under section 7 and so was I. You might be surprised to know that there have been 57 section 7 reports since 1990.

Of those, six bills are currently before the House.


Of the remaining 51:
• 21 have been withdrawn or defeated outright.
• 10 have been amended to address the inconsistency.
• 20 have been enacted unchanged.

Of the 20 that have been enacted unchanged, only one was a non-Government bill

- The BoR have only existed for 20 years. Yet 6 out of 57 are currently before parliament.
- 39% of proposed legislation that were deemed to breach the BoR were enacted unchanged. Outrageous.
- Also let's not forget the section 7 scrutiny can itself be influenced by political pressure.
- Recall Labour’s Electoral Finance Bill amazingly did not even attract a section 7 report

Our constitution is a paper tiger, a window-dressing taken away at the convenience of the "fastest lawmaker in the West"

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Rude Mike » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:21 am

The guy's surname is 'POWER' for fuck's sake.
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:59 am

its a shame his parents didnt have the yarbles to name him 'maximilian'
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby BigNanaJez » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:50 am

What's worse is that we're currently breeding a generation which believes in this nonsense, so it will continue, and noone will know what we have lost.

Let's face it, this government is out to remove as many rights as possible. I'd love to see a list of what they've taken from the people during their short time in parliament.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby nazi scum » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:04 pm

"so disturbing to be reminded how much it paints this country as a left wing experiment gone wrong that needs sorting out by some good old no nonsense center right types"

Needs some serious sorting too. I have been on the waiting list for Housing NZ assistance but im a white single male so that gives HNZ the right to discriminate against me. According to the law, that is. Meanwhile Somalian refugees/immigrants get a house? After 9 nine years of the public service being staffed by liberal bisexuals surely its time for a change.

If you look at the legislation most of your rights under the Bill of Rights are nonexistant...and the government departments will confirm this, just ask.

If it means rapists and murderers get to jail quicker rather than the current system where they get bail for more crime time, I think its a good idea.
i say all islamic people are welcome, just leave your fuckin shitty religion at the door.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby FC » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:05 pm

Get a job you right wing layabout.
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby nazi scum » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm

The government wont let me. i'm too much of a danger to the public!
i say all islamic people are welcome, just leave your fuckin shitty religion at the door.

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby FC » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:09 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVCpzSQTPc[/youtube]
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:13 pm

nazi scum wrote:If it means rapists and murderers get to jail quicker rather than the current system where they get bail for more crime time, I think its a good idea.


I'm no expert, but I'm fairly certain that rape and murder carry minimum sentences of more than three years in prison so they would be entitled to request/probably have to have a jury trial, so it prolly won't mean they'll be in prison any quicker.

General Mutante wrote:There's something deeply petty and authoritarian in the New Zealand psyche. It's only a matter of time before that tendency reaches it's natural conclusion.


Totally with you there. It's deeply engrained too, during the second world war conscientious objectors were imprisoned, as were jewish refugees until it was over (they thought they could be nazi sympathisers). Even back in the 1880's we had an extremely high prison population per capita.

And as for the Egyptian "Hulk"... pretty weak (strong?) excuses for not working! Maybe it's all that much sex? With those wives... *shudder*

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:38 pm

hes probably got that syndrome where hes in survival mode all the time, like when the old lady lifted the 3ton car off her son, cept hes got it switched on permanently, the same effect as being on PCP or certain steroids, his amazing strength could see him shattering his own bones and rippping out his own tendons, which is why its usually only available for emergency situations for the rest of us.

or more likely hes full of shit and just scammed it, fake coins, fat lazy cunt doesnt like work, any close questioning he claims its all down to allah, and you better not be arguing with allah or you dun rong nigga.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:29 pm

When someone is raped, or when an accused attempts to use some weird defence, I note that you guys are quite often in favour of the inquisitorial system which lessens or removes the role of the jury.

And yet when it is proposed that the bar for a jury trial be raised, you have a problem?
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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby xSUSPECTx » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:51 pm

who is you guys?
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby the croc » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:52 pm

Team PunkAs
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So let's get really smashed
and do the heavy head dance

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby arkie » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:04 pm

the croc wrote:Team PunkAs


is an oxymoron

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Re: 'Modern' Justice wants more of you in prison.

Postby BigNanaJez » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:24 pm

Ooh look, the Attorney General has concluded the new criminal procedure bill in in breach of the NZ bill of rights.

http://bit.ly/aC2dQV

Who else thinks National will try and change the bill of rights?


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