Paul Henry on the Governor-General

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby akaxo » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:16 pm

likely to be just a temp fill in from when they were expecting henry back next week i'd say, so full time replacement still to be announced? on the plus side likely to be more camera time for pippa.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby ghetto ninja » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:53 pm

Fuck I hope they get John Tamihere as a replacement.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby xSUSPECTx » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 pm

i vote mikaere laws or hone hatfeild
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:09 pm

dustbinflowers wrote:Glad he's gone, pissed off that TVNZ went the copout path and let him resign rather than firing him, although I'm sure it wasn't his idea. It just gives him some kind of matyr type status, like he's done some noble thing, when in reality I am sure he lacks the empathy or integrity to actually make that decision himself.
I would just about put money on a magazine story and a position on Newstalk. They'll love having him, cos he'll bring all his fucking yokel fans with him.

There are people I know on Facebook who have started a 'Boycott Breakfast until Paul Henry is bought back' page.
Sigh. I just don't get why you'd want to be aligned to that. New Zealand is already seen as a backwater of inbred xenophobic yokels as it is...


So following the best practice as per our current employment law is a 'cop-out' now? Do we abandon all principles about fairness and due process in employment disputes because the subject is an arrogant white male in the media ascendancy?

I've never liked Paul Henry, but the longer this hoo-haa had dragged on, the more I've come to see his detractors as sanctimonious and hypocritical. Did anyone else not find it bizarre that the Unite union were calling for someone to be sacked?

Half the problem is that liberal hand-wringing has caused the definition of what is 'racism' to become an intellectual matter: a process of nuance and interpretation beyond the patience of most people; so here we are, agonizing over whether or not Henry is a racist and whether or not his fans are xenophobic, when the truth of the matter is that they are both just less polite than they should be.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby akaxo » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:06 pm

re employment law it's standard to have instant dismissal for gross misconduct and pretty sure henry's behaviour on this could be included in that if the will had been there on tvnz's part. not that it matters now.

re the unite union they put out a pretty detailed statement explaining their stance on it (bound to be on their website with all their press releases) and part of that was about how they would never call for someone's dismissal lightly. worth a look because yeah that's a valid question but they did explain it well i thought. they talked, amongst other things, about representing people who had to put up with racist harassment at work from workmates and bosses and how such was justified as "joking fun" because it has been in the mainstream media in the past by henry in particular.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Red_switch » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:07 pm

^ yep, we need to try not to normalise this sort of shit.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby akaxo » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:20 pm

damn right, it's a bit of a touchy subject for me because i used to work with an indian guy who was a great hard worker, did more than was asked, overtime whenever i was needed etc etc and at the same time had to put up with all manner of racist shit from people. ranging from having ham waved in his face in the smoko room (he was muslim), being called racist names, having his accent taken the piss out of to just being given all the shit jobs. fucked me off no end i caused a bit of strife a few times sticking up for him and yelling and swearing at supervisors and the like haha. HR in head office knew about it but did fuck all the cunts. that place was fucked. they only employed recent graduates and i'd never encountered such a fucked workplace culture anywhere i've worked even though the company promoted themselves as the opposite to new employees.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:27 pm

The problem is that it is already normalized. Casual racism is endemic in this country, and all this high-minded moralizing isn't going to wash it away if enough people think that its just vindictive lefties trying to engineer the thoughts and feelings of 'mainstream new zealand'.

Paul Henry was rude and obnoxious, and lost his job. Mainstream New Zealand will understand that.

But if Paul Henry is branded a racist, then you've got yourself a martyr for all their unspoken insecurities. The debate becomes political, partisan, and nothing changes.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby xsfat » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:01 am

So following the best practice as per our current employment law is a 'cop-out' now? Do we abandon all principles about fairness and due process in employment disputes because the subject is an arrogant white male in the media ascendancy?

There's no such established "best practice as per our current employment law". Settlements are a matter of expediency, not best practice.
Principles of fairness should be followed, and it does not necessarily point away from dismissal.
Moreever, case law does provide for situations where instant dismissal has been considered justified - see Enzo's Pizza and Amaltal Fishing cases

Henry had already admitted the conduct and had apologised for it - so the facts were not in dispute. An investigation is not required.
The only steps required are to set out the applicable allegations, provide reasonable time to prepare a response, and consider the response and explanations.
In this case, there is no doubt that the extent of disrepute brought upon TVNZ will seriously impair the necessary trust and confidence in Henry.
This is amplified by Henry's lack of restraint and the fact that there is no way to monitor and control further breaches given the nature of live broadcast.

Any dismissal will fall to be determined objectively by the standards of a fair and reasonable employer.
Given all the circumstances, I struggle to contemplate anything less than dismissal or a substantial demotion from prime-time TV.

Let's be clear. TVNZ is not motivated by fairness or due process. They just want to bury this.
They are courting expediency and this does nothing to create an appropriate culture and expectations for Henry's successors.

Let's not forget, TVNZ has to maintain standards of decency and social responsibility in its programmes and their presentation under the Broadcasting Act.
Instead of promoting its responsibility through good employment practices, TVNZ only appears to accept its hamfisted approach reluctantly.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10679637
Speculation was rife last night that TVNZ had agreed to pay six months' salary to Henry, believed to be about $150,000.
TVNZ spokeswoman Megan Richards said any financial settlement was a private matter for Henry. She said "neither his salary or any financial sorting out is taxpayer dollars".

Again, TVNZ is missing the point. Is Megan suggesting there is no legitimate public interest in knowing how such matters were dealt with?

Paul Henry was rude and obnoxious, and lost his job. Mainstream New Zealand will understand that.
But if Paul Henry is branded a racist, then you've got yourself a martyr for all their unspoken insecurities. The debate becomes political, partisan, and nothing changes.

Setting aside the Dikshit saga (which only arose subsequently), I thought Henry was far from rude or obnoxious to the Prime Minister.
He asked a simple, clear and calm question regarding what he presumably regarded as an integral trait for the next G-G.
His comments to the PM were discriminatory based on race and colour. He clearly regarded looking and sounding like a NZder a necessary or desirable trait for a GG.
I suspect a lot more would have been revealed if John Key had simply responded to Paul Henry with a clarification question (instead of bumbling).

On a sidenote, by your logic, Paul Henry has now been made a martyr for all those who are rude and obnoxious (of which there are many). So what?

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:06 am

to be honest i think theres something wrong with people calling for henrys head on a pike, get a grip, you may think his opinions are horrible, but thats just what you think, if youre gunna have high minded ideas about racism, it behooves you to have some about tolerance too, the insane hypocrisy always bothers me in these situations, the truth is youre no better than racists, as all they want is a common enemy/kickpost, and they find it in various ethnic groups, you want the same thing, and you find it in racists, youre not idealists, youre the same as paul henry in every way.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Maleficent » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:12 am

tell that to India.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby xSUSPECTx » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:28 am

tell the untouchables im wrong, indias caste system is the strongest relic of class division i know about.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Maleficent » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am

...so that makes his comments okay?
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby cirE » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:28 pm

xSUSPECTx wrote:tell the untouchables im wrong, indias caste system is the strongest relic of class division i know about.

really? this guy
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Spots2012 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:33 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The problem is that it is already normalized. Casual racism is endemic in this country, and all this high-minded moralizing isn't going to wash it away if enough people think that its just vindictive lefties trying to engineer the thoughts and feelings of 'mainstream new zealand'.

Paul Henry was rude and obnoxious, and lost his job. Mainstream New Zealand will understand that.

But if Paul Henry is branded a racist, then you've got yourself a martyr for all their unspoken insecurities. The debate becomes political, partisan, and nothing changes.


I kind of appreciate your sentiments here FJ, but I disagree.

The problem is that it is already normalized. Casual racism is endemic in this country,

I agree that casual racism is the problem here. But this is _why_ we need to be outspoken - such casual racism is unacceptable. We could argue that this incident is just all the underlying casual racism bubbling to a head. Mainstream NZ needs to get it through their head that it's not ok. (I appreciate peoples right to be racist or whatever, but this is simply a matter of firmly disagreeing with them).
and all this high-minded moralizing isn't going to wash it away if enough people think that its just vindictive lefties trying to engineer the thoughts and feelings of 'mainstream new zealand'.

Seems that you arguing that 'we can't disagree with them, we risk alienating ourselves from them' - but I don't like 'ransom' type delimnas. Don't negotiate with cultural terrorists yo.
But if Paul Henry is branded a racist, then you've got yourself a martyr for all their unspoken insecurities. The debate becomes political, partisan, and nothing changes.

I'd agree with not martyring PH, but this is about firmly confronting NZ about some 'serious' racial issues -ie the idea that indian new zealanders are not 'real new zealanders'.

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Matt » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:48 pm

I agree with Spots. I don't think anybody realistically expects casual racism to disappear in New Zealand overnight, but demonstrating that it is unacceptable is part of the process of cutting it down.

Tolerating the sorts of comments Henry has been getting away with effectively says, "It's okay." You have to begin by at least making people consider questioning their own thoughts and actions.

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby dustbinflowers » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:57 pm

Agreed.

has everyone seen the myriad 'I love Paul Henry'/ 'Bring back Paul Henry'/ 'Boycott TVNZ till Paul Henry comes back'/ 'I want to suck Paul Henry's wrinkly pink ballsac' pages on Face plant? Jeebus, yokels, everywhere. I really can't fathom why someone would want to be aligned with it.

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:36 pm

Matt wrote:I agree with Spots. I don't think anybody realistically expects casual racism to disappear in New Zealand overnight, but demonstrating that it is unacceptable is part of the process of cutting it down.

Tolerating the sorts of comments Henry has been getting away with effectively says, "It's okay." You have to begin by at least making people consider questioning their own thoughts and actions.


Yes, but you're not going to effectively demonstrate that something is unacceptable if you come across as a sanctimonious prick, or if you use the issue for political gain (Goff), or if you flip-flop on your core mandate (Unite).

You're also not combating real racism if you take something that quite possibly wasn't racism, and turn it into racism using your overdeveloped impulse towards being offended.

And by that I mean that is is perfectly possible that Henry's initial statements re: the governor general were not overtly racist. He asked if the next GG would be more like a New Zealander; he didn't say that the next GG should be a New Zealander. His implication that Satyanand is not a New Zealander could very well merely reflect the fact that all previous GGs have been stuffy old white people, who have for a long time been trying to claim the term 'New Zealander' as their own.

Hamfisted abuse of terminology may betray either ignorance or prejudice or both, but to call it racism may be an abuse of the term.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:41 pm

dustbinflowers wrote:Agreed.

has everyone seen the myriad 'I love Paul Henry'/ 'Bring back Paul Henry'/ 'Boycott TVNZ till Paul Henry comes back'/ 'I want to suck Paul Henry's wrinkly pink ballsac' pages on Face plant? Jeebus, yokels, everywhere. I really can't fathom why someone would want to be aligned with it.

Christchurch- freaky white trash quotient is HIGH.


The ease at which you dismiss people who may still like Paul Henry (either in spite of or because of his comments) as yokels and trash exhibits the same sort of hasty prejudice that you (pretend?) to despise.

Remember, those people joining those groups probably think you're the idiot. Good luck turning the tide with that attitude.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby FC » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:09 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:
Matt wrote:I agree with Spots. I don't think anybody realistically expects casual racism to disappear in New Zealand overnight, but demonstrating that it is unacceptable is part of the process of cutting it down.

Tolerating the sorts of comments Henry has been getting away with effectively says, "It's okay." You have to begin by at least making people consider questioning their own thoughts and actions.


Yes, but you're not going to effectively demonstrate that something is unacceptable if you come across as a sanctimonious prick, or if you use the issue for political gain (Goff), or if you flip-flop on your core mandate (Unite).

You're also not combating real racism if you take something that quite possibly wasn't racism, and turn it into racism using your overdeveloped impulse towards being offended.

And by that I mean that is is perfectly possible that Henry's initial statements re: the governor general were not overtly racist. He asked if the next GG would be more like a New Zealander; he didn't say that the next GG should be a New Zealander. His implication that Satyanand is not a New Zealander could very well merely reflect the fact that all previous GGs have been stuffy old white people, who have for a long time been trying to claim the term 'New Zealander' as their own.

Hamfisted abuse of terminology may betray either ignorance or prejudice or both, but to call it racism may be an abuse of the term.


One would assume that if there was a way to explain his comments as not being racist, he would have chosen it, as hes tried to explain his way out of his other faux pas.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby akaxo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:15 pm

unite didn't do a flip-flop, go read what they have released on it explaining their stance and their "core mandate" isn't to ensure people keep jobs when they don't deserve them.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby akaxo » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:25 pm

and i can't see how goff got any political gain out of this with his lame arse initial response along the lines of "it's just paul henry being paul henry" that he got slagged off for on the blogs i read, if anything he lost cred in the eyes of his core support.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby cirE » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:30 pm

dustbinflowers wrote:has everyone seen the myriad 'I love Paul Henry'/ 'Bring back Paul Henry'/ 'Boycott TVNZ till Paul Henry comes back'/ 'I want to suck Paul Henry's wrinkly pink ballsac' pages on Face plant? Jeebus, yokels, everywhere. I really can't fathom why someone would want to be aligned with it.

seems like most members are actual racists tbh, so many blatant as fuck "i hate indians" "get the fuck outta my country" type comments
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:00 pm

akaxo wrote:unite didn't do a flip-flop, go read what they have released on it explaining their stance and their "core mandate" isn't to ensure people keep jobs when they don't deserve them.


Well there's nothing I can find on their website about it, and the quote I read on Scoop wasn't particularly convincing. If you've come across something more substantial please enlighten me.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Maleficent » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:18 pm

cirE wrote:seems like most members are actual racists tbh, so many blatant as fuck "i hate indians" "get the fuck outta my country" type comments


i find that sort of shit incredibly embarrassing and only find it funny when used against white people.

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby General Mutante » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:58 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:
dustbinflowers wrote:Agreed.

has everyone seen the myriad 'I love Paul Henry'/ 'Bring back Paul Henry'/ 'Boycott TVNZ till Paul Henry comes back'/ 'I want to suck Paul Henry's wrinkly pink ballsac' pages on Face plant? Jeebus, yokels, everywhere. I really can't fathom why someone would want to be aligned with it.

Christchurch- freaky white trash quotient is HIGH.


The ease at which you dismiss people who may still like Paul Henry (either in spite of or because of his comments) as yokels and trash exhibits the same sort of hasty prejudice that you (pretend?) to despise.

Remember, those people joining those groups probably think you're the idiot. Good luck turning the tide with that attitude.


Myself, I wouldn't pretend not to be prejudiced against half-witted yokels. I'd happily see them turned into Soylent Green. It's no good trying to change the attitudes of people who have sub-simian reasoning capacities and can't even seem to handle simple sequences of ideas, and most of them don't have any kind of mentally diminishing illness to blame, just willful ignorance. All that can be hoped for is eventually they'll all follow someone who'll lead them straight off the nearest cliff.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby serbian war dog » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:14 pm

Hey have you heard Paul Henry's latest comment?

Apparently he's said that the next NZ representative of the Ku Klux Klan should be more like a real new zealander! What a fucking racist bigot!

I am going to assume that half of NZ agrees with him and stereotype them as white middle class mainstream people and ignore the contradiction and complete hypocrisy of my own words in doing so.

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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby Red_switch » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:23 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:
dustbinflowers wrote:Agreed.

has everyone seen the myriad 'I love Paul Henry'/ 'Bring back Paul Henry'/ 'Boycott TVNZ till Paul Henry comes back'/ 'I want to suck Paul Henry's wrinkly pink ballsac' pages on Face plant? Jeebus, yokels, everywhere. I really can't fathom why someone would want to be aligned with it.

Christchurch- freaky white trash quotient is HIGH.


The ease at which you dismiss people who may still like Paul Henry (either in spite of or because of his comments) as yokels and trash exhibits the same sort of hasty prejudice that you (pretend?) to despise.

Remember, those people joining those groups probably think you're the idiot. Good luck turning the tide with that attitude.


Have a look at the shit being said on those pages/stuff comments/trademe message boards then man. You seem to have a lot of faith in middle nz. What PH has done is bring it all out into the open, and make them think it's ok.

I know you like to play devils advocate, but fuck.
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby cirE » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:34 pm

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Paul-Henr ... 3748673769

Anna Skinner Who wants to watch pc tv, its bloody boring, paul henry was one of the few iconic kiwis left on tv. Us kiwis seem to be an endangered species
Yesterday at 9:35pm

Tyler Spencer If you are white and you say over half of people in prison in nz are maori you are racist but if you don't you are lying
Saturday at 5:14pm ·

Tyler Spencer PS they are only 15 percent of the population
Saturday at 5:31pm ·

Kodie Reid-Mclean Fuck the indians ruining our country they should fuck off because now paul henry has resigned and its all thanks to fucking indians bud bud bud bud bud
9 hours ago



anytime anyone in these comments use kiwi you can replace it with white
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Re: Paul Henry on the Governor-General

Postby cirE » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:35 pm

Anushree Sen Gupta As an indian living in NZ for the past 8 years i think his comments are dispicable. What the hell does a real NZer look or sound like? Shame on you Paul Henry. Sad to think that ppl are actually thinking this on the inside.It borders on racism when you say your not a real NZer(even though you were born one) just because of the colour of your skin..oh does that ring any bells?
October 6 at 5:16pm

Ryan Williams We'll to be fair, generally a New Zealander is a Pakeha or a Maori. What he said was racist, but it isn't racist to generalise a countries ethnicity. If someone is white and has an american accent its not borderline racism to assume they are american.
October 6 at 7:45pm · 4 people
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