Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

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Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby the croc » Mon May 31, 2010 10:01 pm

Deaths confirmed after Israel storms Gaza aid convoy

Updated at 8:10pm on 31 May 2010

At least 10 people have been killed after soldiers stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to the Gaza Strip, according to the Israeli army.
The six ships carrying hundreds of passengers, many of them human rights activists, are on the last leg of a high-profile mission to deliver 10,000 tonnes of aid to Gaza, which has been under a crippling Israeli blockade since 2007.
The exact location of the interception is unclear and it is also not known how many of the six ships in the flotilla the Israelis boarded.
Israel had warned the ships not to enter its territorial waters, calling the campaign a "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".
The Israeli military confirmed on Monday its troops came under fire while intercepting the flotilla and more than 10 activists have been killed. It says during the takeover, soldiers encountered serious physical violence by the protesters who attacked them with live fire.
Organisers of the flotilla say at least 30 people were wounded in the incident, while Israel says 10 of its soldiers were wounded, one seriously.
An Israeli Cabinet minister on Monday voiced regret for the deaths. Trade and Industry Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer told Israel's Army Radio that television images were not pleasant.
Turkish TV pictures taken on board the Turkish ship leading the flotilla show Israeli soldiers fighting to control passengers, the BBC reports.
The footage showed a number of people, apparently injured, lying on the ground. The sound of gunshots could be heard. It is not clear whether the fighting is continuing.
The ships left international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and was expected to arrive in Gaza on Monday.
The economic blockade was imposed by Israel after the Islamist movement Hamas took power in Gaza. Israel says it allows about 15,000 tones of humanitarian aid into Gaza every week. However, the United Nations says this is less than a quarter of what is needed.
Meanwhile, demonstrations against the boarding of the aid convoy have begun in the West Bank city of Ramallah and Turkey.
The New Zealand Government says it is concerned at the situation. A spokesperson for Foreign Minister Murray McCully says New Zealand diplomats in the region are seeking further information about the incident.


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2 ... 480503bb0a

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFEBbDkyrqQ[/youtube]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... gaza-ships

This shit was crazy, I was watching a live feed from the boat just after it happened. Bodies were being dragged around and people attended to. It's fucked up, live voyeur news.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Mon May 31, 2010 10:35 pm

Read about this earlier. The situation is so fucking ridiculous. Countries need to actually put pressure on them to sort out what they are doing, I know the situation isnt black and white, but fuck....how can you possibly warrant this kind of behaviour.



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Window Licker » Mon May 31, 2010 10:46 pm

i hope these people don't die in vain and this is catalyst for some serious fucking change over there. this shit is fucked, totally fucked. fucking Israeli government, blatant fucking murderers.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Mon May 31, 2010 11:03 pm

The flotilla was a fucking joke. They knew they wouldn't get through and they're playing this (successfully) for spin. They're already throwing around words like 'massacre' and 'war crime' and every time they do that, they cheapen the currency of the terms.

They got what was coming.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Window Licker » Mon May 31, 2010 11:08 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The flotilla was a fucking joke. They knew they wouldn't get through and they're playing this (successfully) for spin. They're already throwing around words like 'massacre' and 'war crime' and every time they do that, they cheapen the currency of the terms.

They got what was coming.


i wish you would get what's coming you fucking twat.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Mon May 31, 2010 11:17 pm

Window Licker wrote:
Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The flotilla was a fucking joke. They knew they wouldn't get through and they're playing this (successfully) for spin. They're already throwing around words like 'massacre' and 'war crime' and every time they do that, they cheapen the currency of the terms.

They got what was coming.


i wish you would get what's coming you fucking twat.


Whats coming for me is the satisfaction of seeing a whole lot of liberate Palestine crywanx.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby yellowbus » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:01 am

Has anyone seen the footage?
The commandos are attacked as soon as they hit the deck.

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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:05 am

The flotillas are claiming that the israelis shot first, before they got on the boats, and therefore that is why they are attacked. Either way what the israelis did is essentially piracy, as they were in international waters and my understanding of it is that they are not allowed to board the boats like they did.



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby martyrdamn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:25 am

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The flotilla was a fucking joke. They knew they wouldn't get through and they're playing this (successfully) for spin.


maybe so, but the Israeli response is pretty fucked up, considering they knew for months the flotilla was coming and had set up deportation camps in preparation.

no matter what your take on the Israel / Palestine situation is, this is bad. this is commandos storming a boat 126km from any proper jurisdiction, and opening fire because they were attacked with 'knives and baseball bats' (as if anything other than complete surrender came as a surprise). so, the Israeli army killed and wounded the citizens of a number of other counties in international waters.

Israel fucked up, and even if the US / UN Sec Council don't respond, they've (probably) fucked things with Turkey, who've been some of their closest allies in the region.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Akuma » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The flotilla was a fucking joke. They knew they wouldn't get through and they're playing this (successfully) for spin. They're already throwing around words like 'massacre' and 'war crime' and every time they do that, they cheapen the currency of the terms.

They got what was coming.



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby General Mutante » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:54 pm

Back when I was a lad you had to have at least 30 people before it were a massacre, and we were bloody well grateful for it.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby akaxo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:57 pm

electric wheel chairs were on board the flotilla. obviously the palestinians were going to make explosive packed dummies, strap them into the wheelchairs and send them into jewish towns at the fearsome unstoppable speed of ~5km/h.

wonder if the elderly jewish concentration camp survivor who was on board was one of the people attacking the troops with knives and bars? that'd be pretty intimidating.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby BloodFuck » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:24 pm

Date:
Saturday, 05 June 2010
Time:
13:00 - 14:00
Location:
Aotea Square
Description
Israels vicious attack on Turksih ship aid to Gaza leaves 19 confirmed dead with the death toll estimated to grow. How long will Israels occupation of Palestine and blatant disregard for human life continue to go on?

In cities all over the world, people are mobilising in solidarity with those massacred by the State of Israel on the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza. In Auckland, groups such as Students for Justice in Palestine, Global Peace and Justice Auckland, Unite on Campus and Socialist Aotearoa will be going hard over the next few days- postering, leafletting and signing people up to the Palestinian solidarity movement on stalls all over the city- outside mosques, on campus, on the main streets and in the workplaces.

We need a huge march on Saturday. This is one massacre too many. Enough, Israel, enough.
You have absolutely no shame.

Emergency meetings to organise-

6pm Tuesday 1st of June- International Affiars Committee meeting at the International Affairs office under shadows

7pm Tuesday 1st June at Unite Union, 6a Western Springs Road.

Socialist Aotearoa will be doing stalls on Auckland campus and Queen Street theroughout the week- contact Joe for more info at 021 186 1450.

Big protest this Saturday- meet at Aotea Square at 1pm.

What to do in the meantime?
Write to your local MP's encouraging them to call upon the New Zealand government to join the International Community in speaking out against this crime. Say NO to injustice!

phil.goff@parliament.govt.nz

j.key@ministers.govt.nz
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:16 pm

If you were in a riot, and you attacked a cop with a lead pipe, you'd run the risk of getting yourself shot. Regardless of whether or not it is justifiable or excessive, only a complete fool would have no concept of the potential for consequences.

I'm not sure what sort of person would think that doing the same to Israeli commandos is a good idea, but then again, they're probably the same sort of people who think that running a naval blockade in a cruise ship is a good idea.

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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:22 pm

If somebody shot at you, and then jumped in front of you waving a gun, would you not attempt to subdue them with a lead pipe rather than risk them shooting again?



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby ruff » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:25 pm

This happened in international waters, correct?

Israel had no legal right to board these ships?

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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:29 pm

FC wrote:If somebody shot at you, and then jumped in front of you waving a gun, would you not attempt to subdue them with a lead pipe rather than risk them shooting again?



Aidan


Depends, am I also a fucking idiot?
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby akaxo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:30 pm

if i was on a boat that was being boarded illegally by hostile people in international waters i'd be doing my damnedest to throw them back overboard to where their boats were. i'm sure there's a few people on merchant ships near somalia who might be tempted to do the same if something similar happened to them, and some devoted high integrity japanese researchers who might too when they are down south somewhere.

attacked with lead pipes ya say? wasn't a certain mischievous miss scarlett wielding it was it?
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:34 pm

Clearly they should have just let Israeli commandos board them in international waters, breaking the law as they did, and let them shoot whoever they want, because they are Israel and they are obviously right....America said so, and america are in charge of the world so nah nah nah.

These people were doing something they believed in, and obviously cared more about the plight of the Palestine people than they did about their own well being, and fucking good on them I say. If more people had the same attitude the world might be a better place.

The ironic thing is, if the people on the boats trying to make it through the blockade had been armed, there would be a whole lot of dead commandos (and probably more dead civilians, who would have been legally entitled to defend their boats).



Aidan
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:48 pm

The fact that this took place in international waters is an irrelevant technicality. Israel could have waited until they were in Israel waters and done the same thing as the flotilla had every intention of entering Israeli waters.

I'm no expert on international law, but I'm sure the Israelis understood the consequences of when they chose to act. They needed to board at night. If they had waiting for Israeli waters, it would have been day, there would have been more resistance, more casualties.

And if the activists had put up any serious armed resistance I suspect that the boats would have been sunk.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby martyrdamn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:If you were in a riot, and you attacked a cop with a lead pipe, you'd run the risk of getting yourself shot.


99% sure you're just trolling now, no one is retarded enough to make an analogy between these two situations.

Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The fact that this took place in international waters is an irrelevant technicality.


make that 100% sure.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby bridge. » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:02 pm

Surely walling off a large area of land and denying the people inside it aid, leaving half of them to starve, because you don't like their democratically elected government is also a somewhat dubious move in international law standards.

I'm sure some would consider that it almost amounts to genocide, and would rightfully be angry enough to stage some kind of intervention - even if it was just them fishing for a response to generate some headlines.


I mean....surely Israel can't be surprised by the hostility towards them? Cause they seem like a right bunch of cunts.

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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby akaxo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:07 pm

martyrdamn wrote:
Fearful_Jesuit wrote:The fact that this took place in international waters is an irrelevant technicality.


make that 100% sure.

well israel have pretty consistently considered international law an 'irrelevant technicality'...
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:26 pm

The assumption that Israel broke international law is just that: an assumption. There are arguments going both ways but it is worth considering the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea..

SECTION IV : AREAS OF NAVAL WARFARE

10. Subject to other applicable rules of the law of armed conflict at sea contained in this document or elsewhere, hostile actions by naval forces may be conducted in, on or over:

(a) the territorial sea and internal waters, the land territories, the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf and, where applicable, the archipelagic waters, of belligerent States;
(b) the high seas; and
(c) subject to paragraphs 34 and 35, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of neutral States.

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FrankGrimes » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:28 pm

If the people on the blockades had been armed, and there had been a lot of dead commandos, there would be a fuckload of dead people when the Israeli navy decided it didn't really like having its commandos killed.

Yeah im sure you are all crusaders of freedom and righteousness, but when an armed commando tells you to get down, you dont try and stab them unless you are prepared to die.
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:29 pm

I think the problem with that is that the blockade is in clear violation of international law as well.



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:30 pm

FC wrote:I think the problem with that is that the blockade is in clear violation of international law as well.



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby akaxo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:37 pm

hehe someones being frantically using google looking up maritime law

yeah what aidan said, the UNHRC for a start have declared the gaza blockade illegal so pretty sure the 2nd bit of the section quoted above ain't worth shit and it wasn't a case of naval warfare as last i heard israel isn't at war with the US (two of the boats were US flagged) so don't know what ya on about with the first
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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby FC » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:42 pm

I was pretty sure what they were doing was illegal, as it broke a number of generally accepted international laws, but it would seem that its a slightly grey area, as Israel hasnt ever signed any of the usual documents that say it has to distinguish between a civilian and military population when it applies such blockades against another country. I suppose you could argue that Israel are therefore well within their rights to do whatever the fuck they want to the Palestinians, because they refuse to agree with international law, the UN, numerous other countries and aid agencies....but you'd be a fucking arsehole.

Are you a fucking arsehole?



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Re: Israeli Commandos Storm Aid Flotilla

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:47 pm

Yes I am.

See how far we get from the meat of the issue when you bring up technicalities?
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