Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

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BigNanaJez
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Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby BigNanaJez » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:56 pm

There is currently a surveillance bill before select committee. It is a beast of a thing and everyone should be more aware of it. It is extremely broad and full of holes, it gives a wide range of powers not just to police but to a number of other agencies.

Some of these powers are extremely far reaching and wouldn't be heard of anywhere. Many of these surround the removal of warrants or need for any proper authorisation. Indeed when a warrant is required, police will be able to issue it to themselves!

Just a couple of examples..

- Police can break into your home (without a warrant), set up surveillance equipment and spy on you.

- Police can confiscate your computer at any time (without a warrant) and look at all your information, not just that of interest.

- If you work for a company or business, are part of a club or group (or thought to be), Police can break into your home, set up surveillance or take whatever they like (without a warrant) or ever having to tell you they were there.

These are just examples, there are many many more and very invasive. What's worse is that many of these apply to agencies that are not even the cops! The police don't even need to prove just cause.

Everyone should be worried.

For those who say "I do nothing wrong, so I've got nothing to worry about". You are allowing laws to be passed that would be passed nowhere else in the world.

This is an article from today.

Surveillance bill goes too far, committee told

Lawyers and human rights advocates have spoken out against a government bill giving police and other law enforcement agencies greater search and surveillance powers.

Parliament's justice and electoral select committee is considering the Search and Surveillance Bill which is based on a 2007 Law Commission report.

The committee today heard more than a dozen submissions from organisations including the Human Rights Commission, Law Society, Police and Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party.

Many submissions objected to the increased search and surveillance powers for government agencies, other than police, who have law enforcement responsibilities. These would include agencies such as the Fisheries Ministry.

The increased powers included the ability to hack into computers to retrieve information and compel people to answer questions.

Search and surveillance were "significant" powers that needed to be balanced and the committee should consider whether some agencies needed such powers, Human Rights Commission spokeswoman Sylvia Bell said.

The community had "considerable trust and respect" for police but that would not translate to other agencies, she said.

"Most of these other agencies the community as a whole would not be aware of."

Ralph Simpson, of law firm Bell Gully, said the agencies were not equipped or qualified to carry out surveillance.

It raised concerns about the circumstances in which the powers would be used and "eroded the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure", he said.

New Zealand Law Society spokesman Andy Nicholls said the bill was an unnecessary standardisation of power.

"This bill wasn't driven by a groundswell of concern that agencies didn't have enough power," he said.

A "one size fits all" approach would not work, he said.

Police Association vice-president Chris Chaiall said he had not "closely studied" the effects of widespread search and surveillance powers but overseas examples showed it "normally doesn't work".

"It makes sense to me to have clear areas, and duplication usually doesn't help," he said.

Police had well-established (search and surveillance) systems that other organisations lacked, he said.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... ittee-told

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Marrow » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:59 pm

Police can confiscate your computer at any time (without a warrant) and look at all your information, not just that of interest.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Dead Kid » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:35 pm

BigNanaJez wrote:You are allowing laws to be passed that would be passed nowhere else in the world.

Other western countries have been going through bullshit like the Patriot Act and whatnot for years. I'm rarely pessimistic, but in this regard the human race is basically fucked. I doubt the bill could pass in its current form this time around, but I imagine in a decade or two we'll have a whole lotta crap like this in place. It'd be nice to see NZ become a republic, but it'd just be holding off the inevitable arrival of the new world order. ;)

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Dan Last » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:32 pm

A dude was telling me that this law passed in Australia earlier this year, or essentially the same thing anyway.
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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:20 pm

BigNanaJez wrote:There is currently a surveillance bill before select committee. It is a beast of a thing and everyone should be more aware of it. It is extremely broad and full of holes, it gives a wide range of powers not just to police but to a number of other agencies.

Some of these powers are extremely far reaching and wouldn't be heard of anywhere. Many of these surround the removal of warrants or need for any proper authorisation. Indeed when a warrant is required, police will be able to issue it to themselves!

Just a couple of examples..

- Police can break into your home (without a warrant), set up surveillance equipment and spy on you.

- Police can confiscate your computer at any time (without a warrant) and look at all your information, not just that of interest.

- If you work for a company or business, are part of a club or group (or thought to be), Police can break into your home, set up surveillance or take whatever they like (without a warrant) or ever having to tell you they were there.

These are just examples, there are many many more and very invasive. What's worse is that many of these apply to agencies that are not even the cops! The police don't even need to prove just cause.

Everyone should be worried.

For those who say "I do nothing wrong, so I've got nothing to worry about". You are allowing laws to be passed that would be passed nowhere else in the world.

This is an article from today.



http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... ittee-told


Have you actually read the text of the bill?

A lot of it is pretty routine, and I can't find anything about police officers being allowed to break into homes without a warrant to set up surveillance equipment.. though I haven't read the whole thing in detail.

A lot of it is similar to laws in the UK, Australia and the US, so its not without precedent.

I think that if you're going to make claims about what this bill could enable, you should back it up with the relevant sections of the bill. Things like this are important, and scaremongering does not help.
Last edited by Fearful_Jesuit on Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Fearful_Jesuit » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:31 pm

Maybe this section, which seems to cover urgent circumstances:

Surveillance device warrant need not be obtained for use of surveillance device in some situations of emergency or urgency
(1) An enforcement officer who is in any 1 or more of the situations set out in subsection (2) may use a surveillance device for a period not exceeding 72 hours without obtaining a surveillance device warrant, if—
(a) he or she is entitled to apply for a surveillance device warrant in relation to those situations; but
(b) obtaining a surveillance device warrant within the time in which it is proposed to undertake the surveillance is impracticable in the circumstances.
(2) The situations are as follows:
(a) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that an offence punishable by a term of imprisonment of 14 years or more has been, is being, or is about to be committed; and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device would obtain evidential material in relation to the offence:
(b) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that any 1 or more of the circumstances set out in section 14(2) exist; and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device is necessary to prevent the offending from being committed or continuing, or to avert the emergency:
(c) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that any 1 or more of the circumstances set out in section 18(2) exist; and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device is necessary to facilitate the seizure of the arms:
(d) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that an indictable offence in relation to arms or an offence against the Arms Act 1983 has been committed, or is being committed, or is about to be committed; and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device would obtain evidential material in relation to the offence:
(e) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that an offence has been committed, or is being committed, or is about to be committed in relation to a controlled drug specified or described in Schedule 1, Part 1 of Schedule 2, or Part 1 of Schedule 3 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, or to a precursor substance specified or described in Part 3 of Schedule 4 of that Act; and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device would obtain evidential material in relation to the offence:
(f) the enforcement officer has reasonable grounds—
(i) to suspect that a person is in possession of any 1 or more of the things described in section 79(2)(a) to (d); and
(ii) to believe that use of the surveillance device is necessary to facilitate the thing's seizure.


http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2009/0045/latest/DLM2136536.html
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BigNanaJez
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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby BigNanaJez » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:26 pm

We were talking about it at work, what was outlined to me, I passed on. You've done yourself a credit by looking into it, that's all I was encouraging anyone to do.

I also don't care if the same bills have been passed overseas. That does not mean I agree with it or believe it should be implicated here. Quite the opposite.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby xsfat » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 am

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54625
another thread of the same topic, in which I said:
I'm yet to make up my mind on the Bill.
As I said before, the law has lagged behind technology, and crimes are getting much more sophisticated, particularlly white collar crimes and commercial regulatory offences.
Enforcement measures also need to be updated, but clearly it needs to be fair, transparent, proportionate, limited to what is reasonably necessary, properly defined, and contain the right safeguards against abuse, and at a time that will not render rights nugatory.

I believe the Bill, as it is currently drafted is not proportionate, limited to what is reasonably necessary, contain proper safeguards against misuse or strike the right balance.

It has surprised me that lawyers in Chapman Tripp and Bell Gully have publicly expressed grave concerns about this Bill.
Large law firms typically stay out of policy matters and defer submissions to the law society.

Bell Gully's submission focuses on the expansion of powers to a wide range of non-police agencies. They are right to be concerned about the erosion of the right against unreasonable search/seizure, especially when there is insufficient explanation of why those non-police agencies require such comprehensive powers to fulfil their statutory function and the nature of offences they investigate. In their view, non-Police agencies do not have sufficient checks and balances to constrain the misuse of surveillance powers.
http://www.bellgully.com/resources/pdfs ... _Sep09.pdf

Solicitors at Chapman Tripp has provided the following insight:
http://www.chapmantripp.com/Pages/News.aspx?ItemID=159
The Bill extends this to covert surveillance, including installing recording devices to intercept calls or conversations, tracking devices to determine the movements and whereabouts of staff, and cameras. Regulators will be able to covertly break into premises to install such devices. Perhaps more disturbing, nothing prevents a regulator from conducting similar surveillance on (or in) the homes of employees. If regulators want to use an investigative technique not at present covered by the bill (for example, remotely and covertly accessing your IT network) they can also obtain "residual" warrants.


Regulators will also enjoy a range of ancillary powers that they can exercise in connection with a search or investigative power. These include powers to:

- Detain any person present at premises that are being searched and, if the enforcement officer thinks they may be holding evidence, conduct a "rub-down" search of the person.
- Secure premises and exclude staff from the area, and require your external IT provider (potentially without notifying you) to assist the regulator in accessing and copying your computer network and data storage. In addition, if a representative of a regulator happens to be at a place of business, even in a non-enforcement capacity, they will be able to seize documents or items in plain sight.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby sneakers o'toole » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:26 am

Police can break into your home (without a warrant), set up surveillance equipment and spy on you.


be kinda hard to that with a search warrant

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby xsfat » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:37 pm

Protest against the Search and Surveillance Bill - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-government ... d=10640607 - excerpts quoted only
Protesters took to the streets to protest against the Search and Surveillance Bill. Demonstrations took place at Cathedral Square in Christchurch, Cuba St in Wellington and the Auckland Town Hall.

The Search and Surveillance Bill, based on a 2007 Law Commission report, is currently before Parliament. It would extend search and surveillance powers currently held by the police to another 70 state agencies with law enforcement responsibilities, including the Fisheries Ministry, Work and Income and the Pork Board. The bill would also give police the power to get a "production order" and possibly compel someone to give evidence against their will.

Opponents say it overturns important aspects of civil liberties. The Human Rights Commission, trade unions and several lawyers have already raised concerns about the bill.

Auckland Civil Liberties president Barry Wilson fears a Select Committee will simply wave the bill through. "I'd be amazed if the bill underwent radical surgery despite opposition from state agencies such as Human Rights commission and a whole range of non-government bodies." Mr Wilson said submitters to the Select Committee only had ten minutes to put their views across.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Rude Mike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:27 pm

Are you fucking kidding me?

Of course they're going to pass it no matter how many "left wing hippie morons" speak up about it.

It seems to me like National have always had some sort of plan to turn this country into a totalitarian shit-hole from the beginning! I may as well drink myself into a rage and shoot pensioners if this is really where our nation's heading..
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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby jont420 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:01 pm

marrow why is your porn collection illegal? CP?
Image

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby xsfat » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:49 pm

http://www.lawfuel.co.nz/news/article.asp?NewsID=1205
Search and Surveillance Bill getting clarified

The controversial Search and Surveillance Bill is being redrafted after it raised concerns, including that freedom of speech would be stifled. The bill, being considered by Parliament's justice and electoral select committee, was based on a 2007 Law Commission report and aimed to bring together police powers which are scattered through numerous statutes. However, serious concerns were raised that the bill did more than that and increased agencies' powers to watch members of the public and take information, such as from their computers, with few restraints.

Committee chairman Chester Borrows said MPs decided that the bill needed to be clearer. "The committee was concerned because all of the submitters were saying we were taking the law into new territory when we were assured, and we understood, that we weren't," he told NZPA. "We said to the Law Commission and to the Justice officials 'well you can't be the only ones that are right here when you've got submitters that include big law firms, people from the judiciary and the Human Rights Commission' -- it's not just some extreme bunch who are concerned."

The committee decided to put the bill on hold for clarification and redrafting. The Justice Department was producing a report on the legislation which would be completed sometime next month, the Law Commission had prepared a table showing what the law was now and how it was changed, and the new clearer bill would be ready in July/August.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby svpam » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:46 pm

If everyone thinks this proposed bill is some breakthrough thing, spying on Citizens takes place every day all day through the SIS and the GCSB. They monitor everything from Punkas to your text messages and phone calls. This bill is simply an attempt by the government to put some "visible" legislation out, see if people might make it partially legal.

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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Rude Mike » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Which is exactly why computers are evil and we should all move into small anarcho-socialist communities, as we pick off National leaders with bows and arrows.
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Re: Surveillance Bill YOU should be aware of

Postby Denim Druid » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:29 pm

George Orwell hit the nail on the head really 0X


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