At Least Im Doing Something

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The Ost
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At Least Im Doing Something

Postby The Ost » Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:55 pm

I could go away from this board and never come back, ever. I really mean that, i'm sorry, but there is no soul no hum,our no spirit to be found.

However, if I just buggered off i'd be as bad as the rest of thodse that have already wandered off to another corner of this here interweb.

So I will try to provoke discussion.

Who is/was the most important New Zealand punk band of all time and why?

Don't forget the why part, otherwise we just get lists. I'd prefer it if people stuck to one band if you could, but i'm not much good at that myself.

All answers will feature in print at some stage later on. Peace out, 'Ost. 8)
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Matt

Ouch

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:19 pm

"Of all time"? Ost, mate, I think you may be asking a bit much - there ain't many old-schoolers around...maybe you should lower your expectations to the most important of today, or the last 5 years or something...

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Postby >>>>>>& » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:21 pm

thats right, if you wish to use/abuse/veiw punkas, u must first lower all expectations
i am of the mind and the opinion that if something doesn't accept you,
you do everything in your power to fucking destroy it.
i don't care if it's the world, society, your family or a fucking high school
keg party.
you do everything you can to hit back...and strike back.
let go of some of that fucking hatred
i wanna poison this world the way it fuckin poisoned me.
i'm gonna to everthing, EVERYTHING in my power to corrupt, to twist, to
destroy, to rip apart, to poison.
i'm gonna spit my last breath in all your faces.
you're gonna hear me laughin at the end.

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Hmmmmmm

Postby martin » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:32 pm

I think it is too hard to narrow to one band.

I would have to say [/b]Muckhole because to me the kind of pioneered the pop punk sound in New Zealand. Sure some people may not like it but Muckhole were doing things back in their day that bands are still trying to do now.

Balance were the same as muckhole in a way that they really pushed NZ Hardcore forward. I know their were bands before them but if you just look at the members of balance they are still in some way or another actively involved in the punk scene either here or abroad.

Sommerset can't be left out because of their hard work and constant touring. They have shown that a band from NZ can play overseas and do well.

Just my thoughts

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HAHAHA

Postby martin » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:34 pm

Opps made a bit of a mess with the bold function but you get the idea

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Re: At Least Im Doing Something

Postby Maleficent » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:19 pm

Kabin Boi The 'Ost wrote:
Who is/was the most important New Zealand punk band of all time and why?

Don't forget the why part, otherwise we just get lists. I'd prefer it if people stuck to one band if you could, but i'm not much good at that myself.

All answers will feature in print at some stage later on. Peace out, 'Ost. 8)


CHRIS KNOX.
He's so punk. And he's still going!
He was described as a Antipodean answer to Iggy Pop (which of course is a big ask) back in the day, is responsible for bands like Toy Love and all that.
If you don't believe me, go look into some history.
And he wears shorts so he undoubtedly influenced all these new fangled shorts wearing bands.

Chris Knox had attitude. He had epilepsy. He had The Enemy. He had a mohawk! He has jandals! He has film reviews! He has comic strips!
He has DIY home recording down pat! He sang Bride of Frankenstein!

What more could you ask for?
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Postby x tracker x » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:44 pm

Balance.
'Nuff Said.

Matt

Agree

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:31 pm

I have to agree with Martin here - there seems to be a real disconnect between the punks of the early 80s and today. I don't think you can hear bands like The Skeptics in today's scene. But those of the mid-90s have a clear influence over today.

I'd like to think the most "important" band is still to come, so for now, my definition of most important is the ones with the most influence on today's bands.

Muckhole sold around 1,000 CDs, had three or four videos on TV - they remain still the punk band with the most impact on the mainstream even now. And the impact of Balance is still being felt - lots of bands formed in their wake and got going playing support slots to them, and again as Martin said - you've got members now in other bands, putting out CDs like Missing Teeth's and This Night Creep's debuts, as well as turning up in overseas bands like Snapcase and Roger Miret & The Disasters.

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Postby xsfat » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:27 pm

yea muckhole & balance will be up there. but we r forgetting all the old punks in the 70s & 80s. im not too familiar since i either wasnt born yet or i wasnt in NZ but im sure there was very influential & outrageous bands bak then when punk was young. especialy during the muldoon error. haha oops i meant era

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Postby tbone » Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:14 am

muckhole. i got kooza the other day. its wicked.

i remember listening to muckhole on the radio back in form 1 and 2. and i never knew who they were or what they were called and then this girl told me they were from NZ and i was like no way. and then the played in napier at the old state of it. it was cool. :D memories.....

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Postby phaedrus » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:39 am

I don't deserve to answer a question about who is the most important punk band in NZ of all time - i haven't seen enough bands to speak with any authority, however my favourite would have to be the Deaf Terrorists - loud, snotty, anti-fucking everything, great music, great fun.

They are what I think punk music should be... they were full of energy, you wont find a better front person for a band than Blair Jones, Dan was the perfect drummer and Tim wrote some good bass lines... put together with the constant social commentary/street conciousness (often gutter conciousnes) and attitude you had what punk rock should be... of course there are going to be plenty of other bands out there who influenced them or played something similar, but there was something special about the Deaf Terrorists. Waking up the next day was like having a bad hangoveer, and you didn't even need to drink. You couldn't help but leap about like an idiot when they played, their energy was infectious and you knew deep down they hated you... even if they weren't wiling to show it.

There are/were so many good punk bands/people in NZ that I could never pick just one, but the DT's will always hold a special place in my pants.

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Postby Prince Of The Rodeo » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:51 am

Yeah. They were good. Pity Tim is such a fucking DICK.

I would have to say Flesh D-Vice.

The way Gerald & Eug moved onstage, the great songwriting, the themes of horror and NZ punk/skins goodtimes & bad.....they were my big influence growing up. Shit, going to see them at platform 9 at the Railway Station in Wellington.......Hundreds of Punks and Skins......desperate times and desperate tribes......and those guys had the shit.

They were so fucking cool. They had the image, they had the songs, they had the attitude.

Sorry, but for me, everything else came after Flesh D-Vice.

I mean c'mon....Hamburger?
Best NZ punk song ever written. Hands down.

And don't accuse me of bias. I write this strictly from a fan's POV. Cos I was a fan YEARS before I even met them. :twisted:
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Postby phaedrus » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:54 am

Prince Of The Rodeo wrote:Yeah. They were good. Pity Tim is such a fucking DICK.

I would have to say Flesh D-Vice.


Yep... Tim is a dick.... fully agree about Flesh D-Vice, still one of my favourites...

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Postby switch_blade » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:41 am

Sommerset - are you kidding ? Sorry but nothing new - heard it before - find it anywhere.

Mr Sterile. Old skool - grass roots.

Chris Knox. (nice one Mel) yet again Old skool - grass roots.

Deaf Terrorists - yep. ugly - new and fresh.

Militia / Misadventures in Self Surgery - they will be - just give them time.
To be influental you need to break the mould as these 2 bands are doing.

Ummm, End.
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Postby Maleficent » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:01 pm

girl_geek wrote:Chris Knox. (nice one Mel) yet again Old skool - grass roots.


hee hee, yep, I thought I would dredge something up from the beginning.
Actually, I was hoping to annoy more than anything else ...
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Matt

Question

Postby Matt » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:21 pm

I think Ost is asking for most important, rather than "favourite", although I guess that means they are the most important to you on a personal level.

It depends how you judge a vague term like "important". I mean, girl_geek writes off Sommerset as sounding nothing new, but I think they are an important band and are likely to become even more important.

God knows how many hundreds (thousands?) of people they've now played to in New Zealand, Europe and North America who now know there is such a thing as NZ punk.

God knows how many kids saw "Streets Don't Close" on TV because they like basketball and decided to find out more, or who heard "Clutter" on the radio and so went to a Sommerset show and thought those nice So To Speak lads were a great band on the bill as well, maybe I'll go along to their next show and hey, these local shows are quite fun, aren't they?

I think plenty of locals have taken influence from Sommerset's sound, attitude, or whatever. Regardless of whether you like the music or not, they certainly deserve to be in any discussion on important bands.

And that is why I left out the 80s bands - I think they have little influence on the present day stuff, there isn't much in the way of bridging that gap. Even renaissance man Chris Knox hasn't had influence of punk in NZ, directly, certainly not since the late 80s, I'd say. Flesh D-Vice are probably the closest...but hell, I'm not old enough to have any great knowledge on things from the previous punk boom, so I'm hoping someone more informed can challenge this...

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Flesh D-Vice

Postby mike » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:32 pm

Id have to agree with it being Flesh D-Vice although more referring to the old than the present(still its great to see they are still around).They were the first punk band to go on New Zealand tours, have A2 gig posters etc.If Gerald and co hadn't done what he did then and paved the way for other bands the New Zealand music scene probably would not be what it is now.For instance when Flesh D-Vice first toured the South Island they got told by pub owners that nobody would show up and they definetly proved them wrong.Also the fact Gerald the singer went on to manage Shihad and Head Like A hole by using the contacts he had made from his previous band helped them to go nationwide.Also by touring the university circuit around orientation.Without that I remember Sommerset played support to Head Like A Hole on a nz tour,when they werent that well known outside of AK as they are now, so you can see what influence this had on later bands.

Matt

Sweet!

Postby Matt » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:46 pm

Nice info, Mike!

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Re: Question

Postby Maleficent » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:34 pm

Matt wrote:And that is why I left out the 80s bands - I think they have little influence on the present day stuff, there isn't much in the way of bridging that gap. Even renaissance man Chris Knox hasn't had influence of punk in NZ, directly, certainly not since the late 80s, I'd say. Flesh D-Vice are probably the closest...but hell, I'm not old enough to have any great knowledge on things from the previous punk boom, so I'm hoping someone more informed can challenge this...


Well, thats a matter of opinion.

Maybe bands like Sommerset etc don't look to Chris Knox for inspiration. Hell, alot of people don't simply because they don't like the guy. No-one likes a smartarse.
But he's certainly an important figure in New Zealand Underground music itself, even if you punks don't want to acknowledge it.

As for the Sommerset/Flesh D-Vice thing well - Flesh D-Vice were like the 80s Sommerset, really, weren't they? Its just that alot of older people (and somehow being older equals more cred) still like them.
Just that Flesh D-Vice didn't do the whole straightedger bullshit thing (oh sorry - Sommerset are still vegan, so its alright), they were more the stereotypical punk rock we were bought up to believe in, and just as popular with the kids. Imagine 16 year old versions of G, Prince of the Rodeo, mike or Scruff. Scary!
Sure Gerald Dwyer did alot of great things, I saw his managerial capabilities in action, but where is he now?
Sommerset might be the Flesh D-Vice equivalent for someone in their teens/tweens now, but we're looking over a lifetime's worth of music here.
Or at least, I am.

Chris Knox is a multi-talented artist and performer that has to be credited with fermenting punk in New Zealand in the late 70s (check out The Enemy and Toy Love). There is his DIY approach in his work, the bathroom recordings of the Tall Dwarfs, the crappy stop-motion videos, his own art adorning his releases, posters and newspapers, his songs of social consciousness (I have the Song For 1990 7"), the sheer output of work. Don't forget that Knox summed up alot of attitude contained in early punk (check out his early performances with the Enemy or Toy Love), mixed with a DIY approach which could either be construed as "Punk" or pure "Kiwi Number 8 wire ingenuity, mate". Plus he was fucking mental live (he drew alot of Iggy comparisons), and though he may have toned down (as all old rockers do) he's still amusing and entertaining to watch live or to talk to.
Also Knox would be one of the factors in spawning the whole Dunedin sound in the 80s, whether this may be because of the Flying Nun link, I'll leave that up for NZ music history buffs to decide.
Other possible points in his favour -
1. he's still alive,
2. he's still producing work (though you may find his current output questionable according to your taste),
3. he wears jandals (thats a joke)
4. he's a New Zealander that doesn't sound like some hopeless overseas band.

There are tonnes of other bands that could easily fit in here as well - The Scavengers and Spelling Mistakes are two that jump to mind.
Not to mention my true loves, THE GORDONS!!
(they're punk cos Iggy listens to them)

Chris Knox is to Sommerset like the Stooges are to NOFX.
Give Sommerset another decade.

PS - if there's anyone out there that could probably remind me of a young Chris Knox - well, he's sitting right under our noses. He's called Blair Jones!! (especially if that last "If I had a Gun" gig was anything to go by)

PPS - read some history - read Stranded in Paradise
http://www.wordworx.co.nz/stranded.html
Everyone should read this book at high school.
Everyone should listen to more local music.
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The Ost
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Postby The Ost » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:29 pm

In the words of Vincent K. McMahon, "This is fascinating".

Keep it coming, I want responses from everyone! :) Don't be afraid to argue your point - as intelligently as you can.
"Society makes easy targets; colour, creed, sex. " - The Proletariat

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Postby Maleficent » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:58 pm

If you're planning on plagiarising our arguments (especially mine) for your zine, I want to see references to your sources, young man.

Or at least ask those of us with opinons to write articles (even if they are in the form of a message board rant - most journalism is these days anyway).
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The Ost
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Postby The Ost » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:01 pm

NO FUN Mel wrote:If you're planning on plagiarising our arguments (especially mine) for your zine, I want to see references to your sources, young man.

Or at least ask those of us with opinons to write articles (even if they are in the form of a message board rant - most journalism is these days anyway).


Settle, settle. Of course i reference everything.

As for articles - all in good time, Lieutenant.

PS: Am I on the list of you know who's on the 666?
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Postby BETTYfuckingBOO » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:38 pm

hmmm
cant argue with mel on the chris knox thing
hmmmm, important bands
well id have to say
the skeptics, the gordons, the enemy, bored games
(the gordons i saw at tramways and are still the loudest band ive ever heard
the skeptics(shihad covered affco) i saw at snailclamps in palmy when i was 14 and only recently found out flesh d-vice(shihad covered flaming soul) played as well and it was only like their 2nd gig or someshit)
as far as this melody malarky goes, shit new plymouth has been producing ground breaking stuff for decades..sticky filth, toxic avengers and casualty , who went on to achieve overseas sucess with chris the guitarist even doing a stint in the porkers.
shit dont forget the big jafa..the warners, no tag, the morning horn
hahah nasty agressive loud punk
THE HENCHMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!becoming dum dum boys, reptiles of dawn
axel grinders, hell yeah, mmm rita
oh..nothing at all...north shore nerd core, bass player last seen playing gat in the D4
ummm the whole of ak79 except for mysterx cos i fucking hate that song
cos were one ciggarette away from being done
one ciggarette away
sure has been fun

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Yep

Postby Jord » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:04 pm

Well to me it is Sommerset. My first local punk show at Thistle Hall, i dont really remember much of it except thinking, dang this is for me. Maybe it was the time in my life - booze and buds were still naughty - or maybe the people - that many drunkhards cant be wrong - but it has definately stuck. Thats probably why im at this here website today.

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Postby switch_blade » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:17 pm

Okay - shall I explain.

Sommerset are newish and if people heard them and thought 'yeah - I dig punk - I feel at home here' thats cool.

It just dosen't do it for me - they are not the reason I got into punk - they weren't even around when I got into punk and since they have been around they haven't done much for me except be on tv and charge alot for shows.

I thought this was about the most influential NZ punk outfit off all time.

Does influential mean being on tv ?

Or does influential brake the mould - challenge ideas and make you think ?
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Postby marty McFly » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:50 pm

id have to say

FIVE SIZES TOO BIG

why well......... using the gimick of pretending to be a band to impress everyone at parties during your highschool years is just so fuckin funny
but of course thats nothing important but then these dicks took the joke to far and tried to get themselves gigs while they were still not a real band putting themselves in imbaracing situations just for the fun of it


man thats punk rock

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Postby BETTYfuckingBOO » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:50 pm

go gerrll
good points
i guess at present id hope people would get their inspiration from some of the more energetic and vibrant bands
carnys, bonus donor valley 5 anything blairs in, school of meat
can only speak from a welly point of view really
meatyard
ummm
kitsch, sommerset et all, good bands, but a little polished and bland if you know what i mean, can really get the feeling sometimes youre watching paint by numbers.
i like a little rough
hahaha
but then again im old fashioned
cos were one ciggarette away from being done

one ciggarette away

sure has been fun

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Postby Maleficent » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:13 am

Thanks for mentioning all those old bands G. Fuck how could I forget the Warners?

I have fond memories of going to a Warners gig and watching the lead singer spit into the air and catch his spit on his tongue.
I saw them again about 3 years later - AND HE WAS STILL DOING THE SAME THING!!
Bizarre.

I liked the points about Sommerset, Gerrrl_geek.

Ost - no, you're not on the you know what - kick John in the pants and tell him to write some shit before I mutiny and write absolute ballocks.
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Matt

Warners

Postby Matt » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:02 am

Satelliiiiiiiiiittte SURFING!

Oh, and by influential, I meant they had to have influenced other bands in a noticeable way. I never said Muckhole, Balance or Sommerset were my favourite bands personally, merely that their influence is widespread in NZ, and I think more kids are taking up guitars and drumsticks because of them than, say, The Spelling Mistakes.

I still feel there is a disconnect between the 80s bands and those that rose out of the mid-90s...it's hard to spot a direct lineage of influence there. I bring that up because the optimist in me likes to dream that NZ's punk glory days are still ahead of us.

Maybe if the whole punk thing ended today, bands such as The Warners would be rated a lot higher because you can look at them in the view of the most important bands of this 25-year period in New Zealand.

Oh, and I'm kicking myself for forgetting Nothing At All! - there was always something about that crucial exclamation mark at the end of their name that did it for me. Like a pushy drunk asking if you spilt his pint on purpose...

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Postby haiku terror shades » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:10 am

girl_geek wrote:
Militia / Misadventures in Self Surgery - they will be - just give them time.
To be influental you need to break the mould as these 2 bands are doing.

Ummm, End.


totally umm... neither of those are punk bands


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