Sexism & Rape amongst Aotearoas Punk Rock Community

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:38 pm

meh.....you don't have to act nice to girls to get laid...work that out and you'll go a lot further.

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Postby FiveIronFan » Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:52 pm

Well I cant say ive personally heard of any abuse in the punk, ska or hardcore scene as such.....even verbal (based purely on sex, and not individuals) but im sure it happens.


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Postby Soulreaper » Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:15 pm

It's an important issue that should be discussed. It does happen and it's not ok. Gangsta your humour gets old quickly, sometimes maybe you shouldn't bother replying to this stuff. If you genuinely think sexual abuse is a joke/not something worthy of discussion then there must be something seriously wrong with you.


Thats my serious post for the day.

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Postby Craig_Bastard » Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:02 pm

Yeah...years ago in NP we had a guy in the 'scene' who used to sneak into females beds and molest them...Unfortunately the females never told us until he had left town. The fool came back and was 'talked to'...he left never to return.

When I used to visit AK regularly (90's) I stopped a female friend from being molested by 3 Islanders. They had bailed her up in a shop alcove and one of them had his hands down her pants. They seen me running up and bailed. I wish I had got there sooner, still tears me up, specially when the cops pulled up and asked if we had heard any screams. She told them what had happened and the cops said.."Next time, don't scream so loud"...
I fucking hate pigs.

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Postby no vacancy » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:16 pm

as jeremey has illustrated so wonderfully for us all, sexism is widely accepted these days, and taking the next step up to molestation and rape isn't taken seriously by very many people. take a look at the way people treat girls even on this board, we're all "fucking whiney man hating lesbians" and "are too pc and need to lighten up" and whatever else makes them feel justified for being a self absorbed fuck up. it's not going to stop until people have the fucking guts to make a stand for it instead of worrying about how many people are going to label them pc or humourless, and until peoples attitudes change and "jokes" (i only use that particular word because i can't think of what the fuck else to call this pathetic bullshit) about using/hurting/whatever women (and other people) aren't fucking laughed at anymore, and people don't try and censor other people for trying to do something about these things.

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Postby David xvx Ludd » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:25 pm

I've heard the occasional story from or about chicks. Only one about someone remotely connected to the punk scene though, and mainly 'cause I don't know jack about it, I'll say no more.

The only thing that I have to say is that any guy who molests a girl has no place in punk, hardcore or anything, and should get back just a tiny portion ofr the pain and mental anguish he's probably caused. With brass-knuckle violence, ala xHeadwalkx.
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Postby cracker jack » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:02 pm

Hate to say it folks but it used to happen all to often a long time back, it did seem to dissapear around the late 80's early 90's but I wouldn't be surprised if its back.
A while back my MRs heard some guys talking about the date rape drug and who they would like to use it on at a GOOD venue we do not need this sort of crap happening-she tipped her drinks(and the oher girls with her) out and get me to buy her another one

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Postby her again » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:18 pm

Ever since I've been hanging around with people in this scene I've heard more stories than I can count about this sort of thing.

I dunno whether or not that's because it feels safer to talk about within this type of community or whether it happens more.

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Postby Huey » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:33 pm

Sup.

Dont want to start any arguments or pull any individualistic based shit into this thread. I'm just curious as to peoples ideas on the on going crisis of sexual abuse thats managed to persist throughout a culture & community that many of us on this board take part in.

I'm pretty fucking disgusted and disturbed by some of the behavior of people i've previously been involved in musically, socially or politically. The fact i'd had no idea about alot of the shit that went on until years later is another scary thing.

It alos scares me that the majority of women i know have had mild or extremely dodgie experiences with men, the fact its so often brushed to the side and the fact that so many of these men fuck off to different areas to start the cycle again if shit starts geting heavy.

I'm just bringing this up out of my own concern, its a pretty devastating issue thats not easy to face, but its very fucking close to home for all of us and i'm astonished at the lack of attention some people are giving it.


Speak Up.

Peace Out.

-Gwilym


Hey if you want to do something constructive about it this probably isn’t the best place as sexual abuse/rape is obviously already not tolerated
In the 'scene' as punk is generally strongly against that kind of stuff and I think that’s why I have never seen any form of sexual abuse at a show.

If you are so serious about it you should probably target other groups where this kind of stuff is prevalent.

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Postby M AS TE RM I ND » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:46 pm

I havnt heard of anything like this or seen anything happen scene related but that doesn't mean shit. Because of where my sister works I hear bout sifty drunken sleazes and would be drug rapists all the time. I can't add anything else to the argument, as we all know that behaivour like this is unacceptable regardless of the scene or situation it takes place in, but still it persists.
Last edited by M AS TE RM I ND on Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby David xvx Ludd » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:26 pm

DOnky wrote:Hey if you want to do something constructive about it this probably isn’t the best place as sexual abuse/rape is obviously already not tolerated
In the 'scene' as punk is generally strongly against that kind of stuff and I think that’s why I have never seen any form of sexual abuse at a show.

If you are so serious about it you should probably target other groups where this kind of stuff is prevalent.


Bro, given other people's comments...it seems to me that the reason why you haven't seen much is that you don'[t go to that many gigs...
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Postby Jonny2Tone » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:13 pm

I think generally peeps in the 'scene' look out for one another, which is cool. I also think with the punk being a community thing, bystanders would be more likely to speak up if they saw something dodgy going on with drink spiking.

Truth is, its gonna happen in any scene and there's no real way to prevent it without evidence that its going on. And to get evidence that its going on, some poor girl (or guy) must be drugged or fiddled with inappropriately.

So, my theory is... start an anti-molestation patrol unit in the punk scene.

...or just beat the shit out of anybody that looks like a perve.

No seriously, its an awful thing to happen, especially in a place you frequently choose to hang. But the only proper way to deal to dudes sick enough to drug and rape somebody is to bash the living crap out of them.

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Postby Soulreaper » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:21 pm

If you are so serious about it you should probably target other groups where this kind of stuff is prevalent.




I'm pretty fucking disgusted and disturbed by some of the behavior of people i've previously been involved in musically, socially or politically. The fact i'd had no idea about alot of the shit that went on until years later is another scary thing.


What Gwilyms saying is that this shit DOES happen in our scene, and it's not ok, and we should be able to at least discuss it openly and put a stop to it.

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Postby Craig_Bastard » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:39 pm

Hell yeah...

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Postby Ph!1 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:11 am

i agree that something should be done about it, but i dont think that you should beat people up because of what someone wrote on the internet

(which is the guts of what im sure i failed to communicate to you last week Gwilym)

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Postby Huey » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:12 am

Bro, given other people's comments...it seems to me that the reason why you haven't seen much is that you don'[t go to that many gigs...


I’ve been going to shows since I was 14, I used to go a lot more shows back in the day but not so much lately, I guess that just reflects the fact I’ve been listening to less punk last few years. I have seen my fair share of shows and because as someone pointed out earlier the punk community is so close and most people know each other it makes sense that this kind of shit would be less prevalent in the 'punk/hardcore scene'.

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Postby D Rone » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:22 am

Sexual abuse or discrimination occurs on a whole bunch of levels in the punk scene. Women get pressured to do things they would don't want to, men are expected to endure others behaviour that makes them uncomfortable because to speak out is to be homophobic rather than just claiming your space. Nobody has a right to touch anybody if they don't want them to. Anyone that doesn't see these things going on needs to take a good look around and maybe even at themselves. How much power do you have over the person next to you without realising it? try and step outside of your own head for a few minutes and see how other people feel about your actions.

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Postby Huey » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:50 am

as jeremey has illustrated so wonderfully for us all, sexism is widely accepted these days, and taking the next step up to molestation and rape isn't taken seriously by very many people. take a look at the way people treat girls even on this board, we're all "fucking whiney man hating lesbians" and "are too pc and need to lighten up" and whatever else makes them feel justified for being a self absorbed fuck up. it's not going to stop until people have the fucking guts to make a stand for it instead of worrying about how many people are going to label them pc or humourless, and until peoples attitudes change and "jokes" (i only use that particular word because i can't think of what the fuck else to call this pathetic bullshit) about using/hurting/whatever women (and other people) aren't fucking laughed at anymore, and people don't try and censor other people for trying to do something about these things.


Yes sexism is widely accepted these days, back a hundred years ago there was none right? I would imagine sexism has been on rapid decline last 20-30 years. What about all the violence and abuse men experience from other men? If you ask me men are just as likely to be victims of abuse or violence as women, you only seem to be focused on female abuse so thats probably why you feel women are so victimized. I dont know maybe it’s because I live on the shore or something but I just don’t see where you get some of your ideas from.

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:08 am

FiveIronFan wrote:Well I cant say ive personally heard of any abuse in the punk, ska or hardcore scene as such.....even verbal (based purely on sex, and not individuals) but im sure it happens.


Aidan

judging people and experiences i don't think kids in the "punk rock scene" are much different too the local marist rugby club meatheads...but then i am a cunt.

the girls are just as jacked up and desperate for attention
the guys just as moronic and desperate for sex

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Postby no vacancy » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:40 am

DOnky wrote:Yes sexism is widely accepted these days, back a hundred years ago there was none right? I would imagine sexism has been on rapid decline last 20-30 years. What about all the violence and abuse men experience from other men? If you ask me men are just as likely to be victims of abuse or violence as women, you only seem to be focused on female abuse so thats probably why you feel women are so victimized. I dont know maybe it’s because I live on the shore or something but I just don’t see where you get some of your ideas from.


i definately do think men fall victim to sexism, i would disagree with them being 'just as likely' or perhaps not as likely in the ways we're talking about - but that's not really the issue here - that's a whole new rant in itself, yeah? i'm not gonna go on a crusade to prove to you that sexism in the scene exists, you can find that out for yourself. this thread isn't about whether or not i am a man-hating pc lesbian, it's about girls being verbally and sexually abused and how we can change that. if you don't think we have a case then close the window, i dare you.

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Postby Caliban » Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:58 am

gangsta nigguh hard!!! wrote:
FiveIronFan wrote:Well I cant say ive personally heard of any abuse in the punk, ska or hardcore scene as such.....even verbal (based purely on sex, and not individuals) but im sure it happens.


Aidan

judging people and experiences i don't think kids in the "punk rock scene" are much different too the local marist rugby club meatheads...but then i am a cunt.

the girls are just as jacked up and desperate for attention
the guys just as moronic and desperate for sex


agreed. people into 'punk' and 'hardcore' always seem to be getting on their moral high horse as if this kinda thing is tolerated in 'mainstream' society. i got news for you, in general it isn't.

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Postby Caliban » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:06 am

once upon a time when i had a gf, i was sick at home with glandular fever at my parents in cambridge. she was in auckland and going to grooverider, a world renowned drum n bass dj. i was meant to be there but was sick. someone happened to spike her drink. dunno if it was ghb or roofies but she doesnt remember much of the night, and she woke up in hospital. she had cracked her head on the concrete outside and had a massive lump on her head. some nice people had calledan ambulance for her.

personally i am sickened by this kind of thing. the people that pull this crap are NOT the norm. they have the ability to seem normal but i can assure you most guys have no time for this kindof shit.

another point i'd like to make is that often girls can do things they regret later on. and like gangsta says the girls are often just as desperate for attention, guys are just as desperate for sex. when these two worlds collide, well there is bound to be a bit of fallout. whether or not this is due to 'sexism' is i think irrelevant, cos let's face it, guys like to get laid, girls like attention (and also like to get laid).

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:32 am

oooooh snap that was in like...2000? maybe 01 at fu huh?

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Postby Caliban » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:04 am

umm. would have been 02 at fu. in about april.

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:06 am

yea..same thing...

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Postby no vacancy » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:25 pm

ghb is getting irritatingly common dude, i think "desperate to get laid" is a fucking understatement if ever you made one. close friends of mine have had disasters with it very recently, infact i'd say i've heard more stories about date rape drugs this year than ever before.

i don't disagree with what jeremey said either about there being just as much bs attitudes in our scene as any other in this aspect, i don't think there is as much rape or attempts as some others (thankfully) but it's still there. to be honest though the only people i've ever seen deny it are the actual perpetrators of verbal/sexual abuse etc.

one more thing, i know you weren't trying to say this mark, your post just reminded me of it - but sometimes when girls want attention it doesn't mean they want sex. raping girls and justifying it with 'she was all over me' doesn't mean shit. i mean yeah, there are gonna be girls who are totally gagging for it which i'm sure gets confusing for the boys, but even if a girl is practically naked and wandering around winking at everyone it doesn't mean "can someone come over here and rape me". it might mean that she just wanted nice attention. i don't think 'girls' like attention i think 'humans' like attention. and it does seems to be a hell of a lot more common between girls, but maybe they're not aware that if they openly strive for the attention, they're putting themselves in potential danger. (which is sad).

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Postby Caliban » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:36 pm

i dunno if ghb is as common as it used to be now that its effects have had such a witnessed impact at dance parties etc.

im glad you didnt take that as the meaning of what i said gemma, cos i didn't.

sometimes though, girls give attention to get attention, and it can become confusing for some guys. and yes humans do like attention, the problem is when girls give attention to get attention, and guys who are gagging for it come together, and there is misunderstandings etc which could lead to accusations of sexism, unwanted actions etc.

this however is a lil different to plain outright sexual abuse and rape though, cos i think MOST people do know whether someone is consenting to such an intimate 'invasion' of privacy.

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:42 pm

although girls who are into tagging the whole crew in the one night will always have a special part in every scene. 8)

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Postby Caliban » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:15 pm

gangsta. got names and a pic?

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Postby gangsta nigguh hard!!! » Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:03 pm

send me a pxt.


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