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Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:48 am
by kimura
Supplements are a must, doping to get the top isn't.

"You havn't trained like them" I have, I have trained fulltime, overseas, lived in camp with some of the best in my game. done it twice a day monday to saturday for a year. Shit yeah it sucked and ruled at the same time. I don't think there was one moment when some part of my body didn't hurt. I'm all for over the counter aid, and some things banned perhaps shouldn't be, and others should. But when I talk about people cheating to get an edge I refer to roid abuse/blood doping.
Anyway you took my comment out of perspective, I should have been clearer.

I can imagine Sonnen still managing to kill me while hogtied and hanging over a fire.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:34 am
by nails
Still down for a punkas roll

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:49 am
by cheese
kimura wrote:Anyway you took my comment out of perspective,

No way! That NEVER happens on internet forums, especially punkas.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 1:50 pm
by kimura
Never happens IRL either

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:36 pm
by ruff
kimura wrote:Supplements are a must, doping to get the top isn't.

"You havn't trained like them" I have, I have trained fulltime, overseas, lived in camp with some of the best in my game. done it twice a day monday to saturday for a year. Shit yeah it sucked and ruled at the same time. I don't think there was one moment when some part of my body didn't hurt. I'm all for over the counter aid, and some things banned perhaps shouldn't be, and others should. But when I talk about people cheating to get an edge I refer to roid abuse/blood doping.
Anyway you took my comment out of perspective, I should have been clearer.

I can imagine Sonnen still managing to kill me while hogtied and hanging over a fire.


You seem to have drawn some arbitrary line in the sand between drugs of one sort (supplements) and drugs of another kind (steroids).

A whole year? What happened? why did you stop and how far did you get? I promise you guys who you think aren't using likely are.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:09 pm
by Phlegethon
what about OVEREEM!?

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:12 pm
by Phlegethon
also the new episode of the reem is out. some cool golden glory training footage. gokhan saki is a monster

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:12 pm
by kimura
ruff wrote:
kimura wrote:Supplements are a must, doping to get the top isn't.

"You havn't trained like them" I have, I have trained fulltime, overseas, lived in camp with some of the best in my game. done it twice a day monday to saturday for a year. Shit yeah it sucked and ruled at the same time. I don't think there was one moment when some part of my body didn't hurt. I'm all for over the counter aid, and some things banned perhaps shouldn't be, and others should. But when I talk about people cheating to get an edge I refer to roid abuse/blood doping.
Anyway you took my comment out of perspective, I should have been clearer.

I can imagine Sonnen still managing to kill me while hogtied and hanging over a fire.


You seem to have drawn some arbitrary line in the sand between drugs of one sort (supplements) and drugs of another kind (steroids).

A whole year? What happened? why did you stop and how far did you get? I promise you guys who you think aren't using likely are.



It was 10.5 months to be pedantic.
I was funded by a collaberation between Fosters/Asahi, The Cave and Made In Nippon to train fulltime in Kyoto for 4 Months originaly. But by being tight, borrowing a little bit extra, getting given some extra funds I managed to stretch it out alot longer. Still training/competing here...going back december if I can get the monies & depending on this years results I suppose..
How far I got, not sure how to answer that. It was 90 percent training but got a few medals in some comps and got my Judo Black while there, had a mean time and improved accordingly.
------------

I understand the line can't be black and white, but I like to think most of the banned substances are banned for a reason. Whether it's the athletes long term health, unfair competitive advantages or whatever.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:03 pm
by ruff
kimura wrote:
ruff wrote:
kimura wrote:Supplements are a must, doping to get the top isn't.

"You havn't trained like them" I have, I have trained fulltime, overseas, lived in camp with some of the best in my game. done it twice a day monday to saturday for a year. Shit yeah it sucked and ruled at the same time. I don't think there was one moment when some part of my body didn't hurt. I'm all for over the counter aid, and some things banned perhaps shouldn't be, and others should. But when I talk about people cheating to get an edge I refer to roid abuse/blood doping.
Anyway you took my comment out of perspective, I should have been clearer.

I can imagine Sonnen still managing to kill me while hogtied and hanging over a fire.


You seem to have drawn some arbitrary line in the sand between drugs of one sort (supplements) and drugs of another kind (steroids).

A whole year? What happened? why did you stop and how far did you get? I promise you guys who you think aren't using likely are.



It was 10.5 months to be pedantic.
I was funded by a collaberation between Fosters/Asahi, The Cave and Made In Nippon to train fulltime in Kyoto for 4 Months originaly. But by being tight, borrowing a little bit extra, getting given some extra funds I managed to stretch it out alot longer. Still training/competing here...going back december if I can get the monies & depending on this years results I suppose..
How far I got, not sure how to answer that. It was 90 percent training but got a few medals in some comps and got my Judo Black while there, had a mean time and improved accordingly.
------------

I understand the line can't be black and white, but I like to think most of the banned substances are banned for a reason. Whether it's the athletes long term health, unfair competitive advantages or whatever.


Awesome man. Sounds like a better way to spend the year than what most people get up to.

Still though you havn't been doing it day in day out for 15 years and fighting guys that have been doing the same with all the pressures of the professional sport that go with it. You shouldn't be using but that doesnt mean Sonnen shouldnt or that anyone else he competes with shouldnt or doesnt. The shit works, supplements are a piss poor attempt at the same thing and 99% of the crap doesn't work. We advance gear, training facilities, training techniques yet you think we should draw the line at drugs? Most athletes suffer injuries during training, should we ban training because of the risk to athletes?

Banned for a reason? Really?... these are the same people that ban weed yet won't think of banning cigarettes. You're deluded if you think they are thinking of the health of athletes. Try naming one top athlete that has died from steroid use... in fact attempt to find one person full stop who has died from steroid use. You may find death by abuse (might) but you'll also find deaths of abuse of toasters, should fighters stop eating toast?

Banning of anything doesn't protect shit. Proper research, control and regulation is where sport needs to go, and drug legislation in general.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:17 pm
by nails
ruff wrote:Banning of anything doesn't protect shit. Proper research, control and regulation is where sport needs to go, and drug legislation in general.


My thoughts exactly.
Combat sports are dangerous, I went to watch one of Kimura's judo competitions a couple of weeks ago, I was only there for a little while and I saw three people being carried out on stretchers in that time, not to mention all the people being strapped up, and having their arms put in slings. If anything, performance enhancing drugs help make it safer, more muscle supporting joints/spine etc

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:27 pm
by kimura
According to the university of the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_s ... se_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_dopi ... ve_effects

And I agree, weed should be cool - its hardly performance enhancing. Though I just daydreamed of a 'Titans league' no weight classes, no restrictions on any drug use, would be monster.

Regarding the injuries nick, I think the people being injured wouldnt have been safe if they were more pumped up. Probably looking at doing more injury preventative specific work/resistance work & stretching. Tonnes of guys are all stiff muscle but it has no give when push the wrong way

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:53 pm
by ruff
kimura wrote:According to the university of the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_s ... se_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_dopi ... ve_effects

And I agree, weed should be cool - its hardly performance enhancing. Though I just daydreamed of a 'Titans league' no weight classes, no restrictions on any drug use, would be monster.

Regarding the injuries nick, I think the people being injured wouldnt have been safe if they were more pumped up. Probably looking at doing more injury preventative specific work/resistance work & stretching. Tonnes of guys are all stiff muscle but it has no give when push the wrong way


You didn't actually read those did you?

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:58 pm
by kimura
I did, I was suprised Roids aren't half as bad as they are made out to be. Creatine would be worse (not that creatine is performance enhancing.._

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:10 pm
by ruff
kimura wrote:I did, I was suprised Roids aren't half as bad as they are made out to be. Creatine would be worse (not that creatine is performance enhancing.._


Creatine is performance enhancing in a similar way to steroids just via a different process (though not as good). Anyone who does get caught simply got their cycles and dosage wrong. As long as you're injecting (only an idiot would take oral steroids - pretty good reason for proper education if ever there was one) and cycling properly and not stuffing so much in that you're leaking oil from your muscles all day steroids have numerous benefits that out weight any anecdotal problems pushed by anti-doping lobbyists, all of which could be mitigated through proper education and doctor administration.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:16 pm
by kimura
Yep if it was legal then cool if its monitored & administered by health professionals.

Not so cool when its not legal, as you have two guys and one who is having an advantage the over the other he should in theory not have. How big that advantage is, its subjective.

Something that needs to be done ( and in all fairness, has been a tonne more recently) is proper management of healthy weight cutting.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:48 pm
by The Face
130 Picks:

Rampage vs Mat Hamill
I'm a long time Jackson fan and have him winning this. If he loses, hey, at least we get a funny victory speech ;)

Roy Nelson vs Frank Mir
Difficult to pick, Nelson picked up some impressive wins before his last fight, where he took a fucking hiding from JDS and still got through 15 minutes. Mir is coming off a shithouse fight with Cro-Cop, and getting his shit pushed in by Carwin. I fucking hate Frank Mir, so Big Country it is.

Stefan Struve vs Travis Browne
Struve's UFC track record has been pretty good, bar his 2 first round KO losses to JDS and Nelson. 23 Years old, 6'11 and 21-4 is impressive.

Thiago Alves vs Rick Story
Yeah boi, Alves looked great at 124, here's hoping for a finish this time.

Brian Stann vs Jorge Santiago
More 'Marines' garbage to get crammed down your throat, but Stann is a great fighter.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:06 pm
by ruff
kimura wrote:Yep if it was legal then cool if its monitored & administered by health professionals.

Not so cool when its not legal, as you have two guys and one who is having an advantage the over the other he should in theory not have. How big that advantage is, its subjective.

Something that needs to be done ( and in all fairness, has been a tonne more recently) is proper management of healthy weight cutting.


You assume an advantage... may be that taking them is simply evening the score. Taking them incorrect will send you the other way.

Weight cutting is an interesting issue. The whole weight class system should be up for debate. It's all based around the premise of strength and attempting to make things fair. It's assumed bigger (read. heavier) people are stronger and there is some truth in that but it is far from the whole story. For now it seems to be an adequate measure.

Fighters who are able to walk around at their natural fight weight or very very close always compete better. Genetics is the key here. Dose up on GH grow some nuts and move up a class I say.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:43 pm
by cheese
The Face wrote:130 Picks:

Rampage vs Mat Hamill
I'm a long time Jackson fan and have him winning this. If he loses, hey, at least we get a funny victory speech ;)

Roy Nelson vs Frank Mir
Difficult to pick, Nelson picked up some impressive wins before his last fight, where he took a fucking hiding from JDS and still got through 15 minutes. Mir is coming off a shithouse fight with Cro-Cop, and getting his shit pushed in by Carwin. I fucking hate Frank Mir, so Big Country it is.

Stefan Struve vs Travis Browne
Struve's UFC track record has been pretty good, bar his 2 first round KO losses to JDS and Nelson. 23 Years old, 6'11 and 21-4 is impressive.

Thiago Alves vs Rick Story
Yeah boi, Alves looked great at 124, here's hoping for a finish this time.

Brian Stann vs Jorge Santiago
More 'Marines' garbage to get crammed down your throat, but Stann is a great fighter.


Picks are the same with the exception of Rampage Hamil.
Roy Nelson is always underrated and Frank Mir's fight with cro cop was the worst main event i've witnessed. Would love to see the fat cunt work some BJJ magic on Mir.

Not the most exciting looking card but I have no complaints after 129.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:55 am
by Adam The Muss
My picks are the same, not really sure about the Stann vs Santiago fight though.. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Santiago took it.
Definitely stoked that the Alves fight is on the main card, no idea why it was originally going to be on the undercard. It just didn't make sense.. the dude just lost to the two best welterweights in the world and then put on a wicked fight against Doomsday.

Weight cutting is a really interesting topic which I could go on about for ages. Cutting weight is almost cheating, it's one guy trying to gain an advantage over his opponent, but it's an accepted form of cheating because everyone does it. I cut 5 - 6kg for my last fight. I wouldn't say it's necessarily just to have a strength advantage either. Alves is a perfect example, he's a big solid welterweight who is too small to move up to middleweight. Alves has a reach of 70" and is 5'9", for arguments sake compare that with Anderson Silva who has a reach of 77.7" and is 6'2", that is a significant advantage Silva would have. Silva might not be a great comparison because he's got quite a long reach and has fought at light heavy, but even Dan Hardy and Josh Koscheck have longer reach/height at 74" 6'0" and 73" 5'10" respectively.

Personally that's the reason I cut, not to have a weight on strength advantage but in an attempt to have the longer reach.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:14 am
by Phlegethon
Image

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:18 am
by FC
Are those actual belts? They look even tackier than WWE ones.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:25 am
by Any Day Now
Looks like they have pencils glued onto them...

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:09 am
by nails
In MMA they weigh in the day before right?
In judo it's a bit harder to cut because they weigh in on the day of the competition. I think thats a better way of doing it, you can't rehydrate nearly as much in such a short time so it wouldn't always be in your best interest to cut

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:34 am
by Adam The Muss
For pro MMA they almost exclusively weigh in the night before. Amateur MMA it depends on the promoter.

Just cause the weigh ins are the day of the fight isn't going to prevent guys from cutting either

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:58 pm
by kimura
Same day weight in dosn't stop the cut like Adam said.
Wrestlers, Judoka, BJJ players all weigh in generally same day and all are known for cutting weight.
I only cut around 3-4 Kilo and I'm not doing it on the day, I'm doing it in the last week...later on probably I'll do more but for now it's not neccessary.

Agree it's not a strength thing because a tough cut can leave you gassing out & feeling like you are just rebounding from the flu.


One of my mates was at the Paris Grand Slam & saw someone passout in the sauna - his coach slapped him a few times but he didn't wake up. So next step: Hand slips up the robe and grips the family jewels and an iron grip is applied. The guy certainly woke up, got a yelling at in german and slapped awake a bit more but wasn't allowed out or to have any water.
Crazay

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:13 pm
by nails
holy shit

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:41 pm
by The Face
I've had two novice (rookie as) Muay Thai fights with same day weigh-ins, I cut to 66kg for the first fight, and fought at my natural weight of 70kg for the second. Can't say I noticed much difference in terms of my energy, strength or reach.

First fight the guy was a lot taller and skinnier than me, and second fight the dude was my height and pretty cut.

Will probably go lighter for my next fight (whenever I get around to it).

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:46 pm
by crain
i would cut 2-kg in the last week and then another 4-5 the day of the weighin. one promoter semi stitched me up by claimiing we;d agreed to a lighter weight again and i wanted the fight (on the undercard for a pro-boxing title with semi-names) and ended up getting down to 74kg, cut 9kg all up, was 83 again on the night of the fight but had fuck all in me. got a flash knock down and didn't know what happened. cutting a wee bit does help but too much is a massive hindrance.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:00 am
by kimura
Lol ^ epic cut!~ How did you rehydrate after the cut? A mate of mine used to use an I.V drip.

aparantly depending on how much fluid you lose it's between 4 hours & 48 hours to rehydrate.

Re: The Mixed Martial Arts Thread

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:59 am
by Adam The Muss
Shit! That's a decent cut.

What are the weight cutting techniques you guys are using?