Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:21 am

Cosmo Kramer wrote:
FC wrote:Think you're both missing the point. You say "99 % of people don't think that dressing like a slut means you should get raped" but I bet a bunch more people are thinking to themselves "i wonder if she was leading him on/if she didn't dress like that maybe she would be ok". It's not people saying she is to blame, but it's still that basic attitude that if a woman is dressing in next to nothing, then sometimes bad things might happen because of how she dressed/acted.



who is saying that?>!?!?!?!?!?

so far you have sid one person. a cop in canada


Plenty of people say stuff like this in the media, and no, I am not going to find any more examples for you because either you are asking questions for the sake of it, or this is all too much for you anyway.

Most rapes don't happen in the "standard scenario", they happen with someone the person who is raped already knows.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:24 am

FC wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:
FC wrote:Think you're both missing the point. You say "99 % of people don't think that dressing like a slut means you should get raped" but I bet a bunch more people are thinking to themselves "i wonder if she was leading him on/if she didn't dress like that maybe she would be ok". It's not people saying she is to blame, but it's still that basic attitude that if a woman is dressing in next to nothing, then sometimes bad things might happen because of how she dressed/acted.



who is saying that?>!?!?!?!?!?

so far you have sid one person. a cop in canada


Plenty of people say stuff like this in the media, and no, I am not going to find any more examples for you because either you are asking questions for the sake of it, or this is all too much for you anyway.

Most rapes don't happen in the "standard scenario", they happen with someone the person who is raped already knows.


interesting.

and how many of these people are wearing clothes like sluts?

carry on aiden im sureious to learn more. as i dont see the point yet

i read the newspapers i never read anything like that >?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Tartanperil » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:26 am

What Aidan said.

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:26 am

It's not always so obvious, a comment here, and insinuation there. Plenty of it goes the other way too, people writing in a way that assumes all men are potential rapists etc. I gotta be honest though, I can't imagine you reading a newspaper.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:37 am

FC wrote:It's not always so obvious, a comment here, and insinuation there. Plenty of it goes the other way too, people writing in a way that assumes all men are potential rapists etc. I gotta be honest though, I can't imagine you reading a newspaper.



lol some of my favourite things next to wanking and looking at hot guys / gUrls is reading the news paper and watching the news


look, all i am saying is that its a little unfair the way slutfest promotes itself..

a) dress as sluts
b) walk around
c) have signs like dont look at us
d) wtf?

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:40 am

The signs don't say "don't look at us". Generally they are about a woman's right to dress/act how she likes without fear of being raped/attacked, and then blamed for the attack because of the way she dressed. They dress up like "sluts" as an over exaggeration of dressing "provocatively" in order to make a point. They walk around with the signs, dressed the way they are, in order to attract attention to the point they are making.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:44 am

FC wrote:The signs don't say "don't look at us". Generally they are about a woman's right to dress/act how she likes without fear of being raped/attacked, and then blamed for the attack because of the way she dressed. They dress up like "sluts" as an over exaggeration of dressing "provocatively" in order to make a point. They walk around with the signs, dressed the way they are, in order to attract attention to the point they are making.


im still wondering where this mentailty came from

i dont know one person who thinks like this but yet all males are blamed?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:46 am

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ok lets try another angle.


who is this sign for?

every male out there?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:48 am

Well this can be a problem too, the assumption that all men are evil rapists just waiting for an opportunity. I don't think slutwalk is about this though. It's about an attitude, pertaining to both men and women, that the way a woman dresses or acts is proportional to the blame that can be attributed to her when she is attacked/raped.

That's the last time I'm going to say that, because I've been repeating it for two pages now.

That sign is for anyone who thinks that the way a woman dresses relates to whether she can be blamed for being raped. That might be a man, or it might be a woman. At least that is my interpretation of it, it could be directed towards any number of people, depending on who the sign maker thought it was directed towards.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:56 am

lol the sign maker.

anyway, thank you for you info aiden, i always liek a good argument in and out of court.

just saying.... i think this is a little whack

more on this tomorow i guess.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:57 am

now over to CK's friday thread :baton:
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:57 am

This isn't an argument, it's a series of inane questions each with the same answer. Can I ask what is "whack" about it?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:07 am

FC wrote:This isn't an argument, it's a series of inane questions each with the same answer. Can I ask what is "whack" about it?



i find it weird that this is all based on what one cop said in canada thats what was being saifd in the first posts

i think rape is rape no matter what they have one.

i havent seen anything about the way a woman was dressed

untill you present your case with facts this is just a chance for woman to dress like sluts and walk the streets blaming all men

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:18 am

It was sparked by the comments of a police chief.

"There have been a number of responses to the SlutWalk phenomenon, not all of them positive. For example, Australian commentator Andrew Bolt observed that guidance on how to dress in any given context is simply risk management, and such advice need not exclude opposition to victim-blaming.[20] Rod Liddle agrees, saying "...I have a perfect right to leave my windows open when I nip to the shops for some fags, without being burgled. It doesn’t lessen the guilt of the burglar that I’ve left my window open, or even remotely suggest that I was deserving of being burgled. Just that it was more likely to happen."[21] Mike Strobel even suggests that the approach SlutWalk is advocating is dangerous, and he would not advise a daughter to dress "provocatively in iffy circumstances."[22]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk

So that's two other quoted people basically saying that how a woman dresses may invite rape.

In a NY Times article about the gang rape of an 11 year old girl they mentioned the way she dressed and acted too

The little girl, the paper noted, "dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground . . ."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

The article as subsequently changed, but the fact they felt the need to mention it is pretty astonishing.

Here's an article about a muslim cleric who said if they want to stop rapes in Canada, they should make it illegal for women to dress provatively
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... ocatively/

And some statistics from a survey in Britain:

"The results of a survey published today suggest that more than half (54 per cent) of women think that rape victims are sometimes to blame for the crime.

Of these women, 71 per cent thought that the victim should accept responsibility if she got into the same bed as her attacker, compared to 57 per cent of men. Nearly a fifth (19 per cent) of women said the victim should accept partial responsibility if she went back to the attacker's house.

Twenty-three per cent thought that a victim who danced suggestively on a night out was to blame if she was subsequently raped, and 31 per cent thought the same of those wearing provocative clothes."
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-s ... men-survey


I hope that's enough.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby dustbinflowers » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:46 am

A friend of mine got raped at the weekend, by someone she knew, and thought she was safe with. She is currently beating herself up over the fact that she got pissed, as if somehow that makes it her fault for being raped.

Most people who get raped never charge the person, as trials often become a question of the victim's credibility against that of the person being charged. In this case, he is a company director and she is a single woman with a small child who went around to his house and got drunk. She feels if she did anything, all that would happen is that she would be made to feel responsible for what happened.

Pretty shit really.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Tartanperil » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:25 am

:(

Being drunk is no more an invitation to be raped than dressing "slutty". I hope she changes her mind and dobs him in, and yes she will likely be judged, but attitudes have to change.



FC wrote:Twenty-three per cent thought that a victim who danced suggestively on a night out was to blame if she was subsequently raped, and 31 per cent thought the same of those wearing provocative clothes."
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-s ... men-survey

That's just fucked. And exactly why I'll be at the Slutwalk.

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby General Mutante » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:25 am

Hopefully the culprit gets found in a back alley with his severed cock stuck in his windpipe. I'm all for vigilante justice. Fuck that. I'm really sorry to hear about it.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby akaxo » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:59 am

what he said. someone seriously should start a beat the bastards fund that people can contribute to to pay for people like that to get a late night visit from some people with anger issues...
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Matt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am

I was on a jury for a rape case once and, yeah, the first thing they do is start insinuating things about the alleged victim. Dragging in her sexual history, possible feelings about the accused, anything they can dredge up to discredit the testimony since I'd imagine in most cases they are also the only witness.

The jury also had NO young women in it - it was eight men and four older women. Any young woman called was instantly challenged by the defence.

It must be tough on anyone who goes through that.

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby FC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:30 am

What's horrible is that generally they can bring the victims sexual history into it without any problems, but as soon as you delve into the accused it's all "objection" because it doesn't relate to the case at hand. Pretty fucking bullshit.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby dustbinflowers » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:33 am

She doesn't feel like she's have enough support to go through with a case like that- emotionally or pragmatically. She also has to keep it together as a mum.
She is going to counselling, and she doesn't have to do it straight away. I can understand how she feels though, pretty daunting.

We talked about revenge- it would be relatively easy to arrange a beating or destruction of property- which he would be insured for and have no problem going to the cops over. It would be far more satisfying to destroy his reputation and personal and professional credibilty though. Either way, probably something worth doing with cold logic, rather than straight away...
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:47 pm

sorry to hear about your friend :(
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Tartanperil » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:45 pm

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:06 pm

wait....

why is everyone dressed as sluts again?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby bridge. » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:37 pm

I agree with Kramer. The few people who think that girls who dress like sluts "deserve it", aren't gonna be swayed by a bunch of "uppity women" using their bodies to gain attention.

It's not really a position that will give way to reason. And it's not really a good tactic for trying to convince a bunch of misogynists that they're wrong.

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Tartanperil » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:11 am

Sure it won't convince everyone overnight, and they'll likely be some fuckwits who will always be fuckwits. But it's about changing the views of those in society whose silence or tacit support lets those fuckwits feel they have some support for their views.

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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:39 am

Tartanperil wrote:Sure it won't convince everyone overnight, and they'll likely be some fuckwits who will always be fuckwits. But it's about changing the views of those in society whose silence or tacit support lets those fuckwits feel they have some support for their views.



but why the slutty clothes again?
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby ghetto ninja » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:11 am

Really sorry to hear about your mate Dusty. It really fucking sucks how many girls I know who have been raped and couldn't bring them selves to press charges. I'm surprised a certain someone hasn't chimed in with there defensive "if you weren't there you don't know/women are liars" rhetoric.
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby Grave Dancer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:27 pm

+1 Eddie

bridge. wrote:I agree with Kramer. The few people who think that girls who dress like sluts "deserve it", aren't gonna be swayed by a bunch of "uppity women" using their bodies to gain attention.

It's not really a position that will give way to reason. And it's not really a good tactic for trying to convince a bunch of misogynists that they're wrong.

its not showing just the misogynists that they're wrong, but to actually start a discussion as to why it seems to be accepted that women still get blamed for getting raped; either by dressing or acting provocatively, being intoxicated, because of their sexual histories as mentioned above, or even because the rapist 'didn't believe it was non-consensual'. All these things aren't just the ramblings of a single cop, but are defenses used in courts. so this is what i reckon things like the slut-walk are trying to address. Marching around in their undies is more of a starting point for discussing the problem in its entirety
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Re: Slutwalk Dunedin 2012, 1 September

Postby dustbinflowers » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:37 pm

How about you try it this way- Shouldn't guys be able to walk around wearing whatever they want/ looking however they want/ with whatever haircut without the danger of getting bashed up for looking different/ smailing cos they are happy/ randomly laughing at something a friend said/ vaguely looking in the direction they are moving in, which happens to be within 90 degrees of where someone's missus is...?
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