Recording drums Midi-digital interface

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:21 pm

xCaptainx wrote:sorry meant to write full D.I rig. Getting a line 6 L3T powered monitor when they arrive in the country, depending on the price.

Haha yeah that's a better analogy. I'll have a cup of towny gay ice cream please :lol:



hahaha i thought it was D. (full stop)

i see now

D.I

ew

gross

Ross quite making yourself even more gayer than you already are !!!

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby xCaptainx » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:31 pm

:baton:

Obzen
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Obzen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:34 pm

I'm not even totally sold on triggers, it's just what I'm doing at the moment. maybe in a few months I'll have got a deece as bass drum mic, learn to get a real good EQ mix and decide I like the sound better and never to go back to triggers.

I'm a very 'work-ethic' oriented drummer, and I hate the idea of a band with a 'drummer' using programmed drums, but to me a kick trigger is waaaaay further down the 'fakeness' scale, at least for what I do.

I'm just experimenting with gear but I'm confident in my drumming ability (with or without triggers) and that's what matters to me.
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Nathanael » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:01 pm

If you are confident then put in the work learning how to capture your drums naturally to start. Having that knowledge earlier is better than knowing how to get your trigger sitting in. I aint dissin here, just think that if you learn how to get a great sound out of it, adding to it later will be even easier.
General Mutante wrote:Every wristie is a performance as far as I'm concerned.


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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Obzen wrote:I'm not even totally sold on triggers, it's just what I'm doing at the moment. maybe in a few months I'll have got a deece as bass drum mic, learn to get a real good EQ mix and decide I like the sound better and never to go back to triggers.

I'm a very 'work-ethic' oriented drummer, and I hate the idea of a band with a 'drummer' using programmed drums, but to me a kick trigger is waaaaay further down the 'fakeness' scale, at least for what I do.

I'm just experimenting with gear but I'm confident in my drumming ability (with or without triggers) and that's what matters to me.



are fo Realz !??!

after all that you go and say this shit?

its like you havent even tried both



oh

and what Nat said


fuck Team Ross doesnt know shit

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Obzen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:32 pm

Course I've tried both. 9 years of my drumming career without triggers, about 2 months now with triggers. Also about 2 years (5 years ago) on only an electric drumkit when I couldn't get a jamspace to play loudly in.
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Nathanael » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:59 pm

yossarian wrote:Then by 3 large diaphragm condensor mics, of reasonable parentage.

Then learn the correct use of the "Glyn Johns triangle"

You will now make boss as fuck drum recordings that sound like drums.


This. Or some other technique. You dont even have to use LDCs. But if you learn how to get the best out of this kinda set up adding triggers, pads, piezos will be effortless because you will have the necessary space to do so.

One thing to try out is using cheap piezo pickups wired to jacks (attach them to the kit, put them under woodblocks etc), fed into a midi interface, and then set up what sounds you want them to play. Have mixed drummers doing this and with the right sounds it can be really cool.
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby kettles » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:22 pm

My internet went down a couple days ago, and I had this already typed out so I'm still going to post it and keep the debate alive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMGqhYVwOJA[/youtube]

Using something artificial in metal is kinda defeating the point of metal IMO...I like metal raw and aggressive, not all "oooo I need my kick drums to be perfectly clear oooo"

Still not taking sides on this though.

Getting the metal kick sound without triggers is easy. I'd assume the problem comes from either the drummer not knowing how to set up his kick and pedal to achieve it or the sound guy being unaware that that is what the drummer wants or is unfamiliar with the genre so doesn't even attempt to get that sound. Most kick drums today aren't helping the issue, you'd get a much better 'metal' kick sound out of a 20x14 or 22x14 kick than from a standard 22x18. Shallower depth drums respond quicker and require less power to play at decent volume too.

Instead of the coin trick you can use a metal patch - http://www.danmarpercussion.com/topsellers/DMKbg.gif, it won't damage the head and with a wooden or plastic beater you'll be in click heaven. Keep the resonant head unported for more volume and low end, little bit of muffling, and permanently mount a suitable mic inside. Got a friend who has a condenser mic mounted in his kick, with an XLR jack drilled into the side. Easy set up at gigs and it sounds awesome.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Nathanael » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Cookie used to stick an old phone card on his head to achieve that click in POB. I wasn't a huge fan of his style at first, but during Revenge he had to flip his style and then had the best of both worlds. thundering kicks!
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby yossarian » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:45 am

I know I can come across as a dick in these kind of threads, it's mostly due to frustration. 8 years in the industry combined with NZ's 90% amateur to competent ratio is pretty patience destroying.

At the end of the day it comes down to this for me:

If you can't play it, don't pretend to. As Ross said, it's fucking hard to do 250bpm blastbeats. So own up to the fact that you use programmed drums/samples and stop wasting everyone's time by having a drumkit on stage. From a music fan perspective this is 900% less fucking stupid then carting a drumkit everywhere just because that's what bands are "supposed to look like". From a tech/crew perspective, no one is transporting, tuning, setting up and fucking micing a drumkit no one will ever hear. It's not like triggers themselves are inherently bad, they can be used in heaps of creative ways. It's this whole "this is what band in genre x has to sound like and has to look like, even if the two are incompatible that is fucking retarded. It's no different to Angus Young flying dozens of empty Marshall cabs all over the world while his actual guitar sound is coming out of a single Vox AC30 offstage.

Secondly most metal drums sound absolutely fucking piss weak to an embarrassing degree. This is again straight down to drummers not being able to meet genre expectations. Instead of playing to their abilities, or trying to get better, the kit gets close mic'd with no room sound, tuned as weakly as possible to remove any kit interaction (harmonic resonance between different shells etc), gated to fuck so there's no ring/tail/power to the drums, sample replaced or compressed to fuck to hide weak hits (this completely destroys any dynamic range and if there's no quiet, then there's no loud either), then beat detectived and snapped to grid. At the end of the day you don't even have a drum performance anymore, you have an engineering performance. On top of that you have guitar tones that are clogging up drum frequencies they don't need to taking away the power of the drums. There is no need for a guitar to be clogging up 63 Hz ever, it adds nothing, and can easily be notched out while keeping massive low end in the guitar tone. And hey, suddenly there's space for a kick drum to sound like a kick drum a man would use.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby timi » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:48 pm

If you guys could DI the singer you totally would.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Dick Dynamite » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:56 pm

Fuck no! Microphone = the single most important part of a rock vocal performance.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby timi » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:21 pm

Nah the single most important part of a rock vocal performance is which drumkit from hell preset you are using behind it.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Obzen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Oh, what about Death - Sound of Perserverence? Is this possibly the best example of natural drums sounding fucking awesome on top of a modern & clear kind of guitar tone? Fuck Richard Christy kicks so much ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35oWoTzXYOA
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:13 pm

so...whats your point?

it can be done?
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Obzen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:44 pm

My point is... whatever, really. I'm not in much of a point-making mood. Just adding a relevant thing and a kick ass song. What about you, what's the point in your post and the other 900 posts you've made today hmmm?
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:48 pm

Obzen wrote:My point is... whatever, really. I'm not in much of a point-making mood. Just adding a relevant thing and a kick ass song. What about you, what's the point in your post and the other 900 posts you've made today hmmm?


every post i make has a point.


point me to which one and i will tell you
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby garyasfulla » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:57 pm

Personal opinion, but at local gigs I think triggered kicks can sound awesome. Have played with 3 drummers who became trigger converts with the live sound getting a good boost (especially as a lot of local gigs are fuck around late sound checks where there's little time to get a good sound). Drummer can test their pre-set settings and see which fits best in venue. That said I know fuck all about drums and like death metal with machine gun kicks.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:02 pm

garyasfulla wrote:Personal opinion, but at local gigs I think triggered kicks can sound awesome. Have played with 3 drummers who became trigger converts with the live sound getting a good boost (especially as a lot of local gigs are fuck around late sound checks where there's little time to get a good sound). Drummer can test their pre-set settings and see which fits best in venue. That said I know fuck all about drums and like death metal with machine gun kicks.


Yo George!!

whats up boii?

nice post, but you need to pick a side

TeaM rOSS

or team Gay

pretty sure i know which side you will choose :baton:
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Obzen » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:
Obzen wrote:My point is... whatever, really. I'm not in much of a point-making mood. Just adding a relevant thing and a kick ass song. What about you, what's the point in your post and the other 900 posts you've made today hmmm?


every post i make has a point.


point me to which one and i will tell you


You can start with these ones: search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=wanking&start=15
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby ghetto ninja » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Hahahaha well played.
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby garyasfulla » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:48 pm

Cosmo Kramer wrote:Yo George!!

whats up boii?

nice post, but you need to pick a side

TeaM rOSS

or team Gay

pretty sure i know which side you will choose :baton:


I'll sit on the fence. And not a picket fence like team gay, or a billboard advertising fence like team monster.

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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:09 am

garyasfulla wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:Yo George!!

whats up boii?

nice post, but you need to pick a side

TeaM rOSS

or team Gay

pretty sure i know which side you will choose :baton:


I'll sit on the fence. And not a picket fence like team gay, or a billboard advertising fence like team monster.



lol

:baton:
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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: Recording drums Midi-digital interface

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:10 am

Obzen wrote:
Cosmo Kramer wrote:
Obzen wrote:My point is... whatever, really. I'm not in much of a point-making mood. Just adding a relevant thing and a kick ass song. What about you, what's the point in your post and the other 900 posts you've made today hmmm?


every post i make has a point.


point me to which one and i will tell you


You can start with these ones: search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=wanking&start=15



everyone of those posts has relevance....relevance to wanking :baton:
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