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Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:57 pm
by PertHJ
Been vege for 10years now (last meat meal was xmas lunch 2002), and although I can't imagine that I'd start eating meat any time soon, I feel I care a lot less about the whole thing than I used to (Surely correlated to my reduced presence in this area of the forum)....this got me thinking about how weird it would be to actually start eating meat again and wondered what experiences others had had?

So those that have started eating again, what were your experiences?

Ostracized by vege mate? Meat eating mates gloat?

Did your guts freak out?

Did you start out with aspirations of only eating meat occasionally and only buy organic/free range etc? Did you stick to it, or and up bingeing on shit meat?

Did you go back to a meat-free diet?

discuss

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:58 pm
by FC
Akaxo can have opinions on this, he's done it loads of times :D

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:30 am
by akaxo
haha, and i've been about the strictest vegan i've ever been for a while now and so much better for it. healthier and eating better food and lost some of the excess weight i had a while ago when i was just vege. well vegan except for the occasional egg from the ex-battery chooks in the backyard but most of them get given away.



what do you mean by "care a lot less about the whole thing"? that would depend on your reasons for being vege in the first place i guess. if it's out of compassion and empathy for other sentient beings and believing that they shouldn't be held in captivity and killed because people think they taste good then just start watching earthlings or something like that to remind yourself of why caring about unnecessary torture and death is a good thing and contributing towards it is a bad thing. if that's not part of your reason then i dunno, that's sums it up for me.

so yeah in answer to your questions:

never being ostracized by vege/vegan people, but had a fair few disappointed looks but that's about it. meat eating people are the ones that seem to care and make more of an issue about it in my experience. not all of them of course but some take great delight in it. maybe that's because deep down they know eating meat is horrible, cruel and unnecessary and it makes them feel better about it? I dunno though, what goes on in people's heads it's a bit of a bloody mystery sometimes and i'm sure none of them would agree with that reason but i'd like to think that they are decent enough people for this to be a factor on some sub-conscious level.

never had much of a physical effect for me but for some people it does, that might be more of a reflection on quality of diet changing rather than it being a vege/non-vege thing. mentally though i've always felt worse eating meat as i'd never really managed to block out the reality behind it.

as for the organic/free-range vs shit meat thing, really there's bugger all difference ethically imo. both treat the animals as objects to generate money from and treat them as such. how many additives are in the fed or what sprays go on the grass and how much room they have before they are all trucked off to the same slaughterhouse is immaterial. may as well say the only bad thing about the nazi concentration camps was the food quality and there not being enough mattresses and recreational facilities for the prisoners. so yeah basically i've just gone for the shit stuff ha, but i think that's more to do with when i have lapsed i've also been broke as.

and as i said, gone back to a strict vegan diet bar the occasional egg from the backyard and it's definitely the best option, doubt i'll change again.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:41 am
by akaxo
see how far through this it takes for you to stop considering not being vege :)

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys[/video]

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:21 am
by dustbinflowers
Have been eating meat again for awhile (actually, a couple of years), and I have to say, as long as I don't eat too much too often, I feel better for it. It definitely sits differently in the guts.

I began eating wild meat, with the personal view that friends were giving it to me, and it was pest control. I also wanted to get away from processed foods (breads, sugar, soy/wheat protein, additives etc) as much as possible, and vege foods are pretty bad for it. I now eat meat- mostly fish, sometimes venison, goat or hare- between once a week to once a month, along with free range eggs and a little milk or yoghurt (organic).

As far as personal ethics go, my diet is about health as well as animal ethics: shit meat is something I'd rather not put in my body, I hate commercial farming practices, and as an ecologist I can make informed choices about the animal pests I eat (so saying, I don't think I could get to grips with eating possum or rat :) ) I'm not completely comfortable with the dairy products I eat, as organic dairy practices are not ideal. Something I'm working through.

I think it is likely I will go vege again at various stages of my life, and very likely I will stop eating dairy completely (I already eat stuff all).

Dunno if I've been ostrasized by my vege friends, I don't exactly wave pies in their faces, it's personal. Akaxo usually hassles me more for drinking. You still talking to me Akaxo? :wink:

I keep having Earthlings shoved in my face- is it animal rights snuff movie- you know, the stuff some people watch over and over again being horrified at, or actual informative stuff?

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:25 am
by dustbinflowers
yep, snuff movie for vegans, from a quick scan.
I'm not saying it's not going to be educational and an eye opener for a lot of people, but I question the point of me watching it, when I am already making conscious and informed choices in my everyday consuming.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:27 am
by dustbinflowers
although, so saying, it would probably continue my trend towards less dairy in my life. I just have to get back into black coffee (coffee, my other last remaining evil western consumer vice)

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:03 am
by mmmm....good crack
do it pert.

go to a fancy restaurant and order a rib eye steak or someshit, fucking lamb shanks maybe, hmm bacon something...

meat rules

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:39 pm
by akaxo
^ kinda the attitude from meat eaters i was talking about. it's your own decision to eat what you want for whatever reason you want.

you sound a bit touchy there dustbinflowers :wink: i only posted the video there as it's a good one for reminding vege people who are having doubts how the fucked the meat industry is and the OP was about such doubts. hardly shoving it in anyone's face, no one asked you to press play :) if people suggesting a movie you can chose to watch or not is shoving something in your face how do you think i feel every time i see one of those shitty "nz beef and lamb" ads on tv or a billboard or plastered over the back of a bus, that's shoving something in peoples faces. can't say i know any vege/vegan people who watch it again and again, personally i've never gotten beyond the trailers and i tried to make myself watch it as i got given a copy for the work office and failed. and i don't remember ever giving you shit about drinking!


this song made me go vege again on the spot once after getting a copy of the LP again about ten years ago. had been eating meat for a couple of years prior then listened to this once...

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwFSCLkC37A[/video]

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:29 pm
by mmmm....good crack
What evs brah, cool shocking video.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:54 pm
by arkie
akaxo wrote: compassion and empathy for other sentient beings and believing that they shouldn't be held in captivity


So what about pets? Backyard Chickens? etc.

The ethical component of vege / veganism is very personal and hard to make broad statements about.

Personally I gave up eating meat because it was easier at the time, and started eating meat again about two and a bit years later. Started with shitty burgers. Never noticed any change in my guts except that I needed to eat less frequently than i had been.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:19 pm
by FC
Akaxo, if I had switched from vegetarian to sizzlers and that pressed bacon rubbish I'd have bad memories about eating meat too. Horrible fucking shit, even I won't touch it.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:33 pm
by Dixon Cider A.C.
Coming up four years without any meat, still go hard on dairy and a good percentage of my everyday wardrobe is leather (vest, ridgies made from the vests old sleeves, boots). Only comments I ever get about hypocrisy come from meat eaters but they have never really bummed me out. I've hardly ever preached to anybody as I couldn't give a fuck what anybody else ingests but I do find small amounts of high and mighty meat eaters who go on about their right to consume whatever they want without conscience kind of irritating. Actually to me it's kind of like ethnic pride in a way, being proud of something you didn't really choose to do/be, you're only that way because your parents are. My reasons have only ever been anti abattoir and animal welfare related as opposed to health, I'm pretty rough on my body in a number of ways and my diet does include some pretty questionable fast food outlets. The thought of eating actual flesh grosses me right out now so I never really get into fake meats or anything. These days I'm all about the noodles and stirfrys with tofu where as when I was back in palmy bread and hummus was a staple. Can't imagine going back to the old way any time in the future but my mrs eats meat a bit so I guess our kids will too. That doesn't really bother me as long as they aren't cunts about it :baton:

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:37 pm
by FC
"Hey dad, why are you such a faget?"

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:39 pm
by Dixon Cider A.C.
Lol

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:03 pm
by dustbinflowers
akaxo wrote:
you sound a bit touchy there dustbinflowers :wink: hardly shoving it in anyone's face, no one asked you to press play :) if people suggesting a movie you can chose to watch or not is shoving something in your face how do you think i feel every time i see one of those shitty "nz beef and lamb" ads on tv or a billboard or plastered over the back of a bus, that's shoving something in peoples faces.


I hate those fucking beef and lamb ads too! And the Mad Butcher. Nah, not touchy- except someone I know on FB bombards everyone's wall with videos and photos to the point where I hide all their posts. (not you :) ) When they do it 10 times a day (along with happy hippy motivational pics, WTF for a mindfuck) you have to wonder if they are getting some kind of horror buzz out of it.

Yep, agree, it is such a personal choice.

i don't remember ever giving you shit about drinking!


Haha, I think you've only passive aggressively mentioned the demon drink a few times...

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:45 pm
by Lurch
Rabbits. I've been investigating breeding them for meat supply. If I can convince myself that I could butcher them myself then I'd eat them no problems. At the moment I'm not concerned enough to try - I only became vege as almost an after thought. The whole ethical, enviromental, health and other reasons that people become vegan, although I agree with the reasoning behind them, weren't my selling point. Shit just happened. When I went flatting I realised the only time I ate meat was when I was at my old's house when they cooked it for me, and it would be no dramas to just give it up completely.


Dustbin: I like your stance. Rock on.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:44 pm
by akaxo
dustbinflowers wrote:
akaxo wrote:
you sound a bit touchy there dustbinflowers :wink: hardly shoving it in anyone's face, no one asked you to press play :) if people suggesting a movie you can chose to watch or not is shoving something in your face how do you think i feel every time i see one of those shitty "nz beef and lamb" ads on tv or a billboard or plastered over the back of a bus, that's shoving something in peoples faces.


I hate those fucking beef and lamb ads too! And the Mad Butcher. Nah, not touchy- except someone I know on FB bombards everyone's wall with videos and photos to the point where I hide all their posts. (not you :) ) When they do it 10 times a day (along with happy hippy motivational pics, WTF for a mindfuck) you have to wonder if they are getting some kind of horror buzz out of it.

Yep, agree, it is such a personal choice.

i don't remember ever giving you shit about drinking!


Haha, I think you've only passive aggressively mentioned the demon drink a few times...
killed so many brain cells with alcohol you can't quote properly?

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:50 pm
by Marrow
I work with a guy who only eats what he kills himself (meatwise). I respect that.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:58 pm
by akaxo
arkie wrote:
akaxo wrote: compassion and empathy for other sentient beings and believing that they shouldn't be held in captivity


So what about pets? Backyard Chickens? etc.

The ethical component of vege / veganism is very personal and hard to make broad statements about.
different issue from eating them, you missed out the "and killed" bit in what i wrote, it wasn't "or killed". but anyway... having some ex-battery hens in the backyard that would have ended up in a dog roll or something otherwise so they can retire in the sun and live as close to a natural life as possible after about as shit a start to life as is possible is hardly comparable. as you just implied, ethics is a tricky one that is not black and white.

i know committed vegan animal rights people that do believe that people shouldn't keep pets for a variety of reasons but i don't agree. then there's others that devote themselves to animal sanctuaries and are constantly adopting out all sorts of animals to good homes to be life long pets when the animals would otherwise end up on someone's plate. you could argue that such efforts are pointless as for every animal you take out of that system another just takes it's place and it's the demand that needs to end to stop the suffering, and you'd probably be right. but on the other hand when you see an awesome friendly little piglet go off to a happy home were it will never get abused and eaten it's worthwhile for the difference that is made to that one life.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:00 pm
by akaxo
Marrow wrote:I work with a guy who only eats what he kills himself (meatwise). I respect that.
you work for facebook?

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg only eats meat he kills himself

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:04 pm
by akaxo
Dixon Cider A.C. wrote:ridgies made from the vests old sleeves
what?

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:52 pm
by Dixon Cider A.C.
The vest was once a jacket. When it became a vest the sleeves were cut into strips and recycled.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:11 pm
by akaxo
so what are ridgies?

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:13 pm
by Dixon Cider A.C.
Patched jeans

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:17 pm
by PertHJ
akaxo wrote:What do you mean by "care a lot less about the whole thing"? that would depend on your reasons for being vege in the first place i guess.


Eating meat has never grossed me out, and I've never been very emotional about the whole thing - I went to a slaughter house about 6 years ago, and wasn't really affected by it at all - but ethics was the original reason I got into the whole thing, with the general idea that killing is wrong (if it is unnecessary), and if I can live a perfectly healthy life without eating meat I probably should. However basing my reasoning on ethics makes me very aware of my hypocrisies of eating dairy/cheese/wearing leather and makes me ponder that if I'm not going to make the next leap (vegan etc) then why stay being a vegetarian.

Weirdly enough, reading more scientific writing on atheism, evolution, the human mind, and even quantum physics, has made me both marvel how fucking awesome shit is and how incredible it is that *I* am alive, but also how insignificant and meaningless everything is- I guess this could be an argument for how precious life is, but also makes ethical ideas become far less ridged/black and white and are forever changing. The importance of sentience and the divide between plants and animals start to seem less important. The break down of ethics in science weirds me out a bit though, and would be a bit silly to prove christians right...

Although ethical ideas are what made me originally choose to stop eating meat, the environmental benefits have been a significant reason as well, and has made me want to live a more healthy natural life. This idea as well as studying nutrition at uni has made me more aware of the importance of a balanced diet as well as how processed and unhealthy a lot of vegetarian "alternatives" are and that *I* might be better off consuming at least some meat, as after all our bodys have evolved over millions of years with meat being a presence in the diet so to me it doesn't really make sense to leave it out completely. On the flip side for health reasons too much protein and iron (and salt) are not good for me and so a meat free diet may have had a positive effect - certainly if I started eating meat again I couldn't be sure I would limit my consumption to a healthy level.


I guess although the ethical arguments hold less weight for me now-days, the general idea stands (and am at least causing less harm), and the environmental and heath factors still have a significant impact on me, so no doubt I'll keep it up for some time. I think if I did start eating small amounts of "more ethically" treated animals, or say non-sentient seafood, it seems that it would be harder to say "I don't eat that" if passed a sizzler or fish finger at someones house, and would be a slippery slope - so sticking with and being true with the vegetarian label is somewhat easier for others to understand/accept, and for me to follow.

Oh also, reading far too many post-apocalyptic books has made me aware of the necessity of knowing how to butcher an animal, a skill I'm surely only going to learn if I started eating meat.

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:58 am
by Fiction & Falsehood
Lurch wrote:Rabbits. I've been investigating breeding them for meat supply. If I can convince myself that I could butcher them myself then I'd eat them no problems. At the moment I'm not concerned enough to try - I only became vege as almost an after thought. The whole ethical, enviromental, health and other reasons that people become vegan, although I agree with the reasoning behind them, weren't my selling point. Shit just happened. When I went flatting I realised the only time I ate meat was when I was at my old's house when they cooked it for me, and it would be no dramas to just give it up completely.


Dustbin: I like your stance. Rock on.


what the fuck

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:09 pm
by dustbinflowers
broke non wheat and crap edge today and just had a vege pie and a ginger kiss from the Sydenham bakery, which is across from my work and is my doooooom. So good, counting down to bloat and headache in an hour...

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:36 pm
by akaxo
PertHJ wrote:However basing my reasoning on ethics makes me very aware of my hypocrisies of eating dairy/cheese/wearing leather and makes me ponder that if I'm not going to make the next leap (vegan etc) then why stay being a vegetarian.
because doing something is better than doing nothing? and really being vegan isn't that hard.

PertHJ wrote:Weirdly enough, reading more scientific writing on atheism, evolution, the human mind, and even quantum physics, has made me both marvel how fucking awesome shit is and how incredible it is that *I* am alive, but also how insignificant and meaningless everything is- I guess this could be an argument for how precious life is, but also makes ethical ideas become far less ridged/black and white and are forever changing.
yeah this sort of thing has being more of a reason to be vegan than not and to respect all life. a christian outlook being the one that gives people the delusion that they are somehow special and different from the other animals...

PertHJ wrote:Although ethical ideas are what made me originally choose to stop eating meat, the environmental benefits have been a significant reason as well, and has made me want to live a more healthy natural life. This idea as well as studying nutrition at uni has made me more aware of the importance of a balanced diet as well as how processed and unhealthy a lot of vegetarian "alternatives" are and that *I* might be better off consuming at least some meat...
i'm sure you're aware that there's a LOT of processed rubbish non-vege foods and avoiding that sort of thing is a bit of a separate issue.

PertHJ wrote:...as after all our bodys have evolved over millions of years with meat being a presence in the diet so to me it doesn't really make sense to leave it out completely.
we've also evolved a pretty amazing brain that allows us to have empathy and make decisions that override instincts...


PertHJ wrote:I think if I did start eating small amounts of "more ethically" treated animals, or say non-sentient seafood, it seems that it would be harder to say "I don't eat that" if passed a sizzler or fish finger at someones house, and would be a slippery slope - so sticking with and being true with the vegetarian label is somewhat easier for others to understand/accept, and for me to follow.
ya right here for sure, especially in putting the quote marks around "more ethically" :)

PertHJ wrote:Oh also, reading far too many post-apocalyptic books has made me aware of the necessity of knowing how to butcher an animal, a skill I'm surely only going to learn if I started eating meat.
haha, maybe read some more positive books. it's really not that hard to butcher an animal for food. the only reason you'd need to practice is to be able to produce gourmet style cuts etc and if you're in that sort of situation i'm sure you won't be giving a shit about that sort of thing. there's really no skill involved unless you are aiming on being a chef. things would have to get pretty mental before getting this desperate for food anyway, total break down of society and the rule of law. even in the worst days of our earthquake dramas when people were freighting emergency food down it was never more than a matter of hours that supermarkets weren't open. in my opinion in that sort of situation there's far more better ethical and logical reasons, and a lot of them, for resorting to cannibalism before eating other animals. i know i like my chickens a lot more than i like half the snotty stuck up pieces of shit around where i live :)

Re: Breaking....vedge?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:53 pm
by Fiction & Falsehood
it's really not that hard to butcher an animal for food. the only reason you'd need to practice is to be able to produce gourmet style cuts etc and if you're in that sort of situation i'm sure you won't be giving a shit about that sort of thing. there's really no skill involved unless you are aiming on being a chef.

thats simply not true, theres a few things you need to know otherwise you can contaminate the meat and certainly you can turn a 20min job into a 2 hour one if you dont know what youre up to.