Self-sustainability/Back to the land etc

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Rob Anybody
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Mon May 04, 2009 11:42 am

ive been researching ways to build in an eco-friendly fashion over the last few days, with a background in both concrete/construction and solar i seem to be most qualified for that job out of my friends, and in doing so i came across this(among other cool things) starting to get quite excited about this whole thing.
and if you dont get excited reading this site, i would imagine youre reading the wrong thread. :wink:
Image
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Rob Anybody
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Mon May 04, 2009 12:23 pm

yeh well think about it bro, car stereo audio is pretty highly developed(i dunno why, the people into it only listen to doof doof) and it runs on no more than 24volts, you can power a nuclear sub with that.

i have a tv that runs on 12 volts and so does both my computers, i cant think of anything else i need really. (not that i watch TV)
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Red_switch » Mon May 04, 2009 2:11 pm

Rob Anybody wrote:yeh well think about it bro, car stereo audio is pretty highly developed(i dunno why, the people into it only listen to doof doof) and it runs on no more than 24volts, you can power a nuclear sub with that.

i have a tv that runs on 12 volts and so does both my computers, i cant think of anything else i need really. (not that i watch TV)


Haha the car stereo thing cracks me up. Have seen some cool shit done with car audio components... Standard car headunits are pretty dece these days.

That site is neat-o phil.

Underground houses are popular in deserts as its the only practical and cost effective way of maintaining a constant, comfortable temperature through the day and night.
I think it's lint.

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Rob Anybody
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Mon May 04, 2009 8:47 pm

those houses are above ground tho bro, built up more than a foot in the case of the house that site is about(the picture is just a sauna, i think you can see the intake pipe if you look close), which is more than most concrete floor houses, believe me.
theres some amazing shit that can be done ay, im planning to now have a bit of a go doing an experimental one on my uncles farm with a few mates, and later this year if things work out get to work on some real ones.
only thing is keeping them hidden from the nosy pigs vision, i aint getting no planning permission.

turf roof :wink:
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Mon May 04, 2009 10:10 pm

That house is rad Phil, Hobbiton as!

This is where my uncle lives in Scotland: Findhorn

He's a carpenter by trade and helped build quite a few of their whiskey-barrel houses. Here's their stuff on eco-building
Image

There's also this, may have already come across it: Earth Building Association of New Zealand Inc. My dad has a subscription to Earth Building magazine, will have to dig out some back copies.

phaedrus wrote: just need a low power awesome stereo, cause that'll never be ditched in favour of helping the environment ;)


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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Tue May 05, 2009 10:37 am

the croc wrote:There's also this, may have already come across it: Earth Building Association of New Zealand Inc. My dad has a subscription to Earth Building magazine, will have to dig out some back copies.

no i hadnt thanx bro, hah, found a house i worked on there tho heh.
Image
put the thermal solar on this house, it was the first rammed earth place id seen i think and i remember it well, was a very flash 2 story place.
which is in keeping with that site, not so much of the DIY aspect, it being mainly focused on earth building standardisation.
you have any thoughts on illegal building?
ive read about this illegal build in wales that was subsequently discovered and the legal battle(which still isnt over) that followed.
http://www.thatroundhouse.info/
really love the way the cordwood wall looks, love to do that for internals
Image

sorry for the thread hijack btw
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Tue May 05, 2009 10:54 am

the croc wrote:
phaedrus wrote: just need a low power awesome stereo, cause that'll never be ditched in favour of helping the environment ;)


Fuckin' a. Image

you can get a USB record player now ay?
altho that old thing looks way more choicest
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Any Day Now » Tue May 05, 2009 11:13 am

Woah that shit is awesome Phil! Are you looking at setting up to build stuff like that? My dream is to buy a couple of acres and build a haybale house with a grass roof, solar panels and rain water collection (and the huge vege garden goes without saying) that would be so awesome.

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Tue May 05, 2009 11:57 am

cool, yeh id like to take a look around an earthship, altho its a bit of a toss up between organic and recycled, the two being pretty exclusive of each other.
Any Day Now wrote:Woah that shit is awesome Phil! Are you looking at setting up to build stuff like that? My dream is to buy a couple of acres and build a haybale house with a grass roof, solar panels and rain water collection (and the huge vege garden goes without saying) that would be so awesome.
yup, a friend of mine has well, a lot of money she is able to spend on land, and she was the initiator behind this, simultaneously another friend is wanting to do the same thing, with any luck later this year we will get started on it, unfortunately its not easy to organise hippies, im pretty keen to get straight into some experimental stuff, i know of some land i might be allowed to play about on.
haybale looks pretty good, and if done right it should be fine, (i read some very good howto's recently) but superadobe sandbags is how i wanna go.
you can do ANYTHING with these, you can make them thermal mass or highly insulated, its all in what you fill the bags with, easy and cheap and solid as a rock.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Adobe
Image
Image
http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/hart.htm
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby beef666 » Tue May 05, 2009 12:24 pm

This thread is pretty fucking cool. Cheers for the choice reads.
http://www.myspace.com/abortedchristians666

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Tue May 05, 2009 12:27 pm

Rob Anybody wrote:you have any thoughts on illegal building?
ive read about this illegal build in wales that was subsequently discovered and the legal battle(which still isnt over) that followed.
http://www.thatroundhouse.info/
really love the way the cordwood wall looks, love to do that for internals

sorry for the thread hijack btw


No worries man, it's all related. As for illegal building it would only be my personal opinion as I have no experience with house building legal or otherwise nor with legal matters. I'd say go for it, just don't get caught! I've met a few people who live in tee-pees (which are a pretty awesome construction themselves) and don't really see the difference legality wise.

There was an old guy Frank Amor who battled the council in New Plymouth a few years ago. He had been adding corrugated iron extensions to his 'shed' for the last 20 years or so until the council took him to court over it because it didn't fit into the district plan. Pretty funny because the site was up on a hill with epic sea views and surrounded by near million dollar houses. It ended up costing about $40,000 dollars in legal fees ($30,000 for the council and $10,000 in legal aid for Frank) and went to the high court who ruled it was unsanitary and offensive but that the council followed incorrect procedure. He ended up being able to keep it with a few minor adjustments and a paint job.

Rob Anybody wrote:you can get a USB record player now ay?
altho that old thing looks way more choicest


Yeah I think so, I still use my parents old one so have never really looked. I found this though which is also windup, pretty sweet.

Image
The revolution™ Eco Media Player can be entirely powered by windup technology. By doing away with the need for replacement batteries that would otherwise go to landfill sites, the revolution™ Eco Media Player makes a significant contribution to the environment and the carbon footprint of personal consumer devices.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby beef666 » Tue May 05, 2009 1:11 pm

^^ shits rad.
http://www.myspace.com/abortedchristians666

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Tue May 05, 2009 5:12 pm

Just to keep up with the precedent set of changing topics every couple of posts :D , here's the twenty premises from Derrick Jensen's Endame. I've mentioned it a few time son here already but I can't recommend this book enough to people who are interested in this sort of thing. It's absolutely fucking scathing which is awesome. I hate to use the phrase "life-changing" because to be honest I haven't really changed my life at all since reading it but it definitely refined and solidified my views on quite a few issues.

Premises of Endgame

Premise One: Civilization is not and can never be sustainable. This is especially true for industrial civilization.

Premise Two: Traditional communities do not often voluntarily give up or sell the resources on which their communities are based until their communities have been destroyed. They also do not willingly allow their landbases to be damaged so that other resources—gold, oil, and so on—can be extracted. It follows that those who want the resources will do what they can to destroy traditional communities.

Premise Three: Our way of living—industrial civilization—is based on, requires, and would collapse very quickly without persistent and widespread violence.

Premise Four: Civilization is based on a clearly defined and widely accepted yet often unarticulated hierarchy. Violence done by those higher on the hierarchy to those lower is nearly always invisible, that is, unnoticed. When it is noticed, it is fully rationalized. Violence done by those lower on the hierarchy to those higher is unthinkable, and when it does occur is regarded with shock, horror, and the fetishization of the victims.

Premise Five: The property of those higher on the hierarchy is more valuable than the lives of those below. It is acceptable for those above to increase the amount of property they control—in everyday language, to make money—by destroying or taking the lives of those below. This is called production. If those below damage the property of those above, those above may kill or otherwise destroy the lives of those below. This is called justice.

Premise Six: Civilization is not redeemable. This culture will not undergo any sort of voluntary transformation to a sane and sustainable way of living. If we do not put a halt to it, civilization will continue to immiserate the vast majority of humans and to degrade the planet until it (civilization, and probably the planet) collapses. The effects of this degradation will continue to harm humans and nonhumans for a very long time.

Premise Seven: The longer we wait for civilization to crash—or the longer we wait before we ourselves bring it down—the messier will be the crash, and the worse things will be for those humans and nonhumans who live during it, and for those who come after.

Premise Eight: The needs of the natural world are more important than the needs of the economic system.

Another way to put premise Eight: Any economic or social system that does not benefit the natural communities on which it is based is unsustainable, immoral, and stupid. Sustainability, morality, and intelligence (as well as justice) requires the dismantling of any such economic or social system, or at the very least disallowing it from damaging your landbase.

Premise Nine: Although there will clearly some day be far fewer humans than there are at present, there are many ways this reduction in population could occur (or be achieved, depending on the passivity or activity with which we choose to approach this transformation). Some of these ways would be characterized by extreme violence and privation: nuclear armageddon, for example, would reduce both population and consumption, yet do so horrifically; the same would be true for a continuation of overshoot, followed by crash. Other ways could be characterized by less violence. Given the current levels of violence by this culture against both humans and the natural world, however, it’s not possible to speak of reductions in population and consumption that do not involve violence and privation, not because the reductions themselves would necessarily involve violence, but because violence and privation have become the default. Yet some ways of reducing population and consumption, while still violent, would consist of decreasing the current levels of violence required, and caused by, the (often forced) movement of resources from the poor to the rich, and would of course be marked by a reduction in current violence against the natural world. Personally and collectively we may be able to both reduce the amount and soften the character of violence that occurs during this ongoing and perhaps longterm shift. Or we may not. But this much is certain: if we do not approach it actively—if we do not talk about our predicament and what we are going to do about it—the violence will almost undoubtedly be far more severe, the privation more extreme.

Premise Ten: The culture as a whole and most of its members are insane. The culture is driven by a death urge, an urge to destroy life.

Premise Eleven: From the beginning, this culture—civilization—has been a culture of occupation.

Premise Twelve: There are no rich people in the world, and there are no poor people. There are just people. The rich may have lots of pieces of green paper that many pretend are worth something—or their presumed riches may be even more abstract: numbers on hard drives at banks—and the poor may not. These “rich” claim they own land, and the “poor” are often denied the right to make that same claim. A primary purpose of the police is to enforce the delusions of those with lots of pieces of green paper. Those without the green papers generally buy into these delusions almost as quickly and completely as those with. These delusions carry with them extreme consequences in the real world.

Premise Thirteen: Those in power rule by force, and the sooner we break ourselves of illusions to the contrary, the sooner we can at least begin to make reasonable decisions about whether, when, and how we are going to resist.

Premise Fourteen: From birth on—and probably from conception, but I’m not sure how I’d make the case—we are individually and collectively enculturated to hate life, hate the natural world, hate the wild, hate wild animals, hate women, hate children, hate our bodies, hate and fear our emotions, hate ourselves. If we did not hate the world, we could not allow it to be destroyed before our eyes. If we did not hate ourselves, we could not allow our homes—and our bodies—to be poisoned.

Premise Fifteen: Love does not imply pacifism.

Premise Sixteen: The material world is primary. This does not mean that the spirit does not exist, nor that the material world is all there is. It means that spirit mixes with flesh. It means also that real world actions have real world consequences. It means we cannot rely on Jesus, Santa Claus, the Great Mother, or even the Easter Bunny to get us out of this mess. It means this mess really is a mess, and not just the movement of God’s eyebrows. It means we have to face this mess ourselves. It means that for the time we are here on Earth—whether or not we end up somewhere else after we die, and whether we are condemned or privileged to live here—the Earth is the point. It is primary. It is our home. It is everything. It is silly to think or act or be as though this world is not real and primary. It is silly and pathetic to not live our lives as though our lives are real.

Premise Seventeen: It is a mistake (or more likely, denial) to base our decisions on whether actions arising from these will or won’t frighten fence-sitters, or the mass of Americans.

Premise Eighteen: Our current sense of self is no more sustainable than our current use of energy or technology.

Premise Nineteen: The culture’s problem lies above all in the belief that controlling and abusing the natural world is justifiable.

Premise Twenty: Within this culture, economics—not community well-being, not morals, not ethics, not justice, not life itself—drives social decisions.

Modification of Premise Twenty: Social decisions are determined primarily (and often exclusively) on the basis of whether these decisions will increase the monetary fortunes of the decision-makers and those they serve.

Re-modification of Premise Twenty: Social decisions are determined primarily (and often exclusively) on the basis of whether these decisions will increase the power of the decision-makers and those they serve.

Re-modification of Premise Twenty: Social decisions are founded primarily (and often exclusively) on the almost entirely unexamined belief that the decision-makers and those they serve are entitled to magnify their power and/or financial fortunes at the expense of those below.

Re-modification of Premise Twenty: If you dig to the heart of it—if there were any heart left—you would find that social decisions are determined primarily on the basis of how well these decisions serve the ends of controlling or destroying wild nature.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Tue May 05, 2009 6:25 pm

dont agree with all of that, its a very western and somewhat arrogant philosophy, it ignores too many realities im afraid, but i like its general thrust, not keen on an ill conceived revolution tho ay, blabbing about this kind of shit gets you put in jail for 8 months while they claim youre a terrorist.
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rob Anybody » Tue May 05, 2009 7:14 pm

the croc wrote: As for illegal building it would only be my personal opinion as I have no experience with house building legal or otherwise nor with legal matters. I'd say go for it, just don't get caught! I've met a few people who live in tee-pees (which are a pretty awesome construction themselves) and don't really see the difference legality wise.

yeh ive heard a few horror stories, but yeh, i guess its just gunna be something i find out the hard way, im basically working on the premise that its better to ask for forgiveness than permission from some people.
im really champing at the bit to go try this out for myself, i reckon il buy some hessian bags as they are organic, and fill them with earth and replace barbed wire with blackberry sticks, this is in case the project is abandoned or it just falls down(as it will eventually as nobody will live in it)
you can actually build with new world bags filled with adobe, but i dont think my uncle will want me to take a bunch of rubbish up there, so organic only.
i want to build an adobe sandbag structure
Image
and then make a roundhouse turf roof, i dunno how il waterproof
not planning to use a pondliner, il see what i can do tho.
Image
have to have a try at this stuff too.
Image
i just love the way it looks, but as its not as good an insulator or thermal mass that sandbags can be(depending whats in them)
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Agnes » Tue May 05, 2009 10:33 pm

Croc you should have a read of this:
http://www.newshare.com/Newshare/Common/News/manifesto.html
INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY AND ITS FUTURE by Ted Kaczynski
its a bit of a read but a very interesting one on a pretty persuasive anti-civ bent.

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 pm

Sweet cheers man, I'll give it a hoon over the next few days.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Agnes » Thu May 07, 2009 3:31 pm

lol. he's right about some things.
I couldn't name any tho.

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Sat May 09, 2009 12:26 pm

The best way to get around the building permit thing Phil is just don't build larger than 10 square meters. Anything larger than that you need a permit. That should be plenty to play around with while you're learning (A 3.16m sided square or variations of that). This gives a pretty good idea of the size: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Sh ... 466316.htm
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby xSUSPECTx » Sat May 09, 2009 3:07 pm

fuckin mean, i didnt know that, thanx bro, thats sweet as for pod/cell style housing which is what we want anyway.
awesome
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Sat May 09, 2009 4:16 pm

This is the specific part you can get away with:

Garden Sheds:

* Any garden shed greater than 10 square meters in floor area will require a building consent.
* Garden sheds still need to comply with District Plan rules and therefore need to be a minimum of there own height from the boundary.
* Garden sheds also need to be at least three meters back from the front boundary.


http://www.tauranga.govt.nz/knowledgebase/tabid/624/qid/184/tctl/1332_ViewQuestion/Default.aspx

And the specific part of the building act:

A building consent is not required for the following building work: does not exceed 1 storey, does not exceed 10 square metres in floor area, and does not contain sanitary facilities or facilities for the storage of potable water, but may contain sleeping accommodation (without cooking facilities) if the detached building is used in connection with a dwelling
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2004/0072/latest/DLM309339.html?search=ts_act_building+act_resel#DLM309339
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rude Mike » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:47 pm

fucking WINNER of a thread this is frickin sweet haha i really like the part about the native plants shit-all people know that are edible! also that sandbag house would be sweet. i reckon building underground AND using sandbags as retaining walls would work a charm.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby xSUSPECTx » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:14 pm

oh shit i didnt realise so much had been lost from this thread.

lame.

il start a wild food thread when im in a good mood and andrew TA and beef arent making me want to kill myself.
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby Rude Mike » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:14 pm

haha
PILLAGE - http://www.myspace.com/pillagegppvt
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:06 am

Just picked up this book yesterday:

Image

It's awesome. It's split into seven chapters:

(1) The Meaning of Self Sufficiency
(2) Food from the Garden
(3) Food from Nature
(4) In the kitchen
(5) Energy and Waste
(6) Crafts and Skills
(7) Things You Need to Know
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby dustbinflowers » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:39 am

John Seymour is a bit of a guru in this area- I have one of his older self sufficiency books- it goes into everything at an acre, 3 acres, 10 acres. Very cool.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:55 pm

There's a 3 month permaculture course coming up at Riverside Community in Motueka in September if anyone is interested.

THE COURSE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO:
• sustain themselves and their communities by growing and processing their own food
• share these practical life skills with others
• live co-operatively in an intentional community
• make a difference by contributing to the creation of a sustainable world
• expand their horizons and enrich their lives.

COURSE DESCRIPTION
This is a ‘hands-on’ internship style course where participants primarily learn through doing.
Learning will be interactive and tailored to individual learning styles. Each day includes
some classroom tutoring, outdoor practical activities, self-directed study and community
living skills. The main teachers are Riverside Community members, complemented by local
guest tutors.

The core curriculum
• Our living earth, Gaia — the big picture
• Soil — this miraculous source of life
• Vegetable and fruit production and processing — from tilth to table
• Permaculture design and implementation — working within the cycles of nature. Additional course activities
• Basic natural building and related technologies
• Community living
• Effective communication
• Deepening our connection with nature
• Introduction to traditional Maori approaches to the land
• Bio-regional sustainability

Additional crafting skills
According to their interests, participants will have the opportunity to learn additional skills offered by Riverside residents (for example creative woodwork, weaving with natural materials,
healthy cooking, cheese making) as well as being able to participate in local activities (for
example yoga classes, Transition Towns groups). The standard permaculture (sustainable landuse design) curriculum is integrated into the internship. An internationally recognised
certificate will be issued upon completion.

A typical day
The programme and its daily rhythms are built around the cultural and seasonal calendars of
spring and early summer.
Morning — theoretical and practical skills:
learning and working in the gardens.
Afternoon — own research/study, crafting or
culinary skills, other practical sessions, planting.

COURSE VENUE
This residential course will be held at Riverside — NZ’s oldest intentional community — which was founded in 1942 by WWII conscientious objectors. It is situated on 200 ha of land in the beautiful Moutere Valley, remains agriculturally based, and continues its dedication to social justice and peace. The community is primarily supported by a dairy farm and livestock, a café and through selling horticultural products. Riverside’s Community and Cultural Centre is an attractive venue which is also used by the wider community. The Centre includes a modern
commercial kitchen. Participants will be accommodated in their own rooms within the hostel facility, and will cater for themselves using seasonal food produced on the land.

For more information on Riverside, visit:
http://www.riverside.org.nz

BIOGRAPHIES OF MAIN TUTORS
Philip Vincent
Philip is a holistic thinker who has lived at Riverside for 30 years. He has many land-based skills to share, including building with earth and timber, and has expertise in plumbing and water supply. He helped build and maintain the Community’s bio-gas producing sewage treatment plant. Philip initiated and then managed Riverside’s BioGro certified orchards and berry-fruit gardens from 1989-1996. He is currently developing new gardens, and his vision for these includes vegetable growing, field crops, a plant nursery, and a large range of fruiting trees and bushes. Philip is motivated by a deep sense of ‘Gaia’ — and an ever– developing awareness of ‘deep ecology’.

Verena Gruner
Verena is originally from Germany, and immigrated to New Zealand in 1981. She has
lived in communities for over 30 years, including Riverside. Verena has been a gardener for 20
years and also specialises in food processing of all kinds. She has a particular interest in
democratic education, and is a co-founder of Mountain Valley alternative primary school. She
has also organised numerous festivals, concerts, and educational workshops.

Robina McCurdy (main permaculture tutor)
Robina is a co-founder and resident of Tui Land Trust community, and is founder/trustee of the Institute for Earthcare Education Aotearoa. For 25 years she has worked nationally and internationally in community development, permaculture design and tutoring, organic growing, the development of environmental education resources and the creation of participatory processes for decision-making and collective action. Robina currently works as the Victory Community Garden co-ordinator and organic growing trainer for the Nelson area.

COURSE DETAILS
Number of Participants: 8
Course length: 12 weeks
Cost:
New Zealand participants: $280 per week
Overseas participants: $350 per week
Includes: accommodation, food, Internet access, educational materials, comprehensive
library, tuition (practical hands-on and theoretical).
• The fee includes a part work exchange component.
• For equalisation reasons, the fee is lower for NZ residents than for overseas participants.

Enquiries and registrations of interest to:
Sylvia Bauer: sylviabauer@gmail.com
Phone 64 3 526 7890
Cell 27 426 7803
Please:
• include name, age, sex, nationality, physical limitations and special needs.
• state your motivation for doing this course and how you envision applying what you learn after completing it.
• describe your experience and any qualifications in: organic growing, permaculture design, building, forestry, animal management, community organisation, community living, or other
relevant experience. Soon after receiving your registration of interest we will contact you for an interview, and if accepted for the programme, a deposit of $350 is required two weeks later to hold your place. The final payment is due on final registration date. As there are only eight places available, early registration is encouraged.

Final Registration Date: Friday 21 Aug 2009

Course Runs 21 September — 13 December 2009

This pilot programme is being hosted and developed by Riverside Community Trust Board,
in conjunction with the Institute of Earthcare Education Aotearoa. A similar programme is planned to take place at Tui Community in Golden Bay in autumn, 2010. Contact Inna: earthcarenz@gmail.com.
Last edited by the croc on Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby xSUSPECTx » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:00 am

this work on maori agriculture might be interesting to those who are interested in permaculture.
it seems to show a lot of the same respect for the land that the philosphy of permaculture espouses.

In breaking up new land or when digging fern root several men might work together, standing in a row and so breaking out a long section of earth. In preparing the soil for planting a different method was adopted. The soil was not turned over; it was not even all dug. The sweet potato was planted in little mounds, and these were spaced in a very regular manner. Only at these spots where the seed tubers were to be planted was the soil dug. To prepare such a spot the digger thrust his ko into the ground three times, and, by pressing the shaft down loosened the soil by means of the upward movement of the point. Thus the spade was used as a lever is, and not as we manipulate a spade. The three thrusts of the spade were made at different parts of the circumference of the small area where the mound was to be formed, as [gap — reason: illegible] The performance loosened the soil, broke it up and raised it; the next operation was the pulverising of the clods, which was done with a wooden club, after which the soil was further worked and loosened, roots, etc., were cast aside, and the finely worked soil formed into small mounds ready to receive the seed tubers.


http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-B ... dy-d8.html
Carly Ngarotata-Simon wrote:U misd two commas u illiterate fuk. It should read...mainstream, whilst at the same time, ... Who da dumb cunt now. Im bilingual. I can txt speak n also write in 'proper' english havin bn a legal secretary 4 13 years. So im actualy fukn streams ahead in inteligence ova u. Plus i hav a life! I dnt waste my time typing evry leta out cos i have a life! Dum ass. Peace, im out. Hahahahaha

Spots2012 wrote:do animal rights activists vehemently oppose Maori eating pigs etc, or are they willing to let that one slide?

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Re: Self-sustainable vegans

Postby the croc » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:00 pm

A couple of books I've picked lately on this topic:

Image

At the age of seventeen, Eustace Conway ditched the comforts of his suburban existence to escape to the wild. Away from the crushing disapproval of his father, he lived alone in a teepee in the mountains. Everything he needed he built, grew or killed. He made his clothes from deer he killed and skinned before using their sinew as sewing thread. But he didn't stop there. In the years that followed, he stopped at nothing in pursuit of bigger, bolder challenges. He travelled the Mississippi in a handmade wooden canoe; he walked the two-thousand-mile Appalachian Trail; he hiked across the German Alps in trainers; he scaled cliffs in New Zealand. One Christmas, he finished dinner with his family and promptly upped and left - to ride his horse across America. From South Carolina to the Pacific, with his little brother in tow, they dodged cars on the highways, ate road kill and slept on the hard ground. Now, more than twenty years on, Eustace is still in the mountains, residing in a thousand-acre forest where he teaches survival skills and attempts to instil in people a deeper appreciation of nature. But over time he has had to reconcile his ambitious dreams with the sobering realities of modernity. Told with Elizabeth Gilbert's trademark wit and spirit, this is a fascinating, intimate portrait of an endlessly complicated man: a visionary, a narcissist, a brilliant but flawed modern hero. The Last American Man is an unforgettable adventure story of an irrepressible life lived to the extreme. The Last American Man is a New York Times Notable Book and National Book Critics Circle Award Finalist.


This was really awesome. Pretty out of it dude, makes Bear Griffiths (who is a fake anyway) and Survivorman (apparently more legit) look like amateurs. After reading Bill Bryson's Walk in the Woods on the Appalachian Trail and the dangers of the trail it makes Eustace Conway's achievements that much more real. Despite all his flaws (and there are many) he's still a very inspirational guy who makes me want to get outside and do stuff even more. Highly recommended for anyone into outdoors stuff. The author Elizabeth Gilbert sounds like a pretty amazing person herself, really keen to read Eat, Pray, Love now which chronicles her own life.

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Science/Nature/General/product_info/13694892/?cf=3&rid=2016761854&i=1&keywords=the+last+american+man

Image

This classic of the back-to-the-land movement is packed with solid, timeless information. Written by a renowned horticulturist, it has taught generations how to make their land self-sufficient, with explanations of organic farming techniques and reliable advice on other topics, including irrigation, livestock, crops, greenhouses, fertilizers, much more.


Only had a quick flick through this, but looks really comprehensive. It was written in the 1940s so some of the stuff has been outdated, such as lead lining water tanks etc, but most of it is still relevant.

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Science/Nature/General/product_info/847570/?cf=3&rid=256558771&i=1&keywords=five+acres+and+independence

Edit: changed title to better reflect rest of thread
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Re: Self-sustainability/Back to the land etc

Postby the croc » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:56 pm

I just got Simply Living: A gatherers guide to New Zealand's fields, forests and shores by Gwen Skinner at Arty Bees today. Good section on seaweed.


First 13 pages are here:

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=_PYO ... q=&f=false
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