Advice for a training diet?

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Advice for a training diet?

Postby Any Day Now » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:49 am

Ok, so after 5 years of debauchery to my body, I've started exercising and eating properly etc etc.

At this stage I'm looking to get my body ready to compete in two sports, Rowing and Kick boxing, but I'm finding that with a vegan diet my calorie intake consists of half carbs and 25% each of protein and fats. Obviously I'm looking to really boost my protein intake for muscle growth (and just plain health really) without eating too many processed foods. As much as i love huge amounts of green beans, I need something a bit more exciting. Oh and can anyone recommend where to get (or make) tempeh from?

Would really appreciate any advice from some vegan sports peoples please!

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Rob Anybody » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:05 am

look up all the cool shit you can do with quinoa, its real high in protein, and i found out last night it comes in different varieties, not just the white version, also brown, black and purple rice, nuts and seeds are also awesome for protein and flavour, you can buy stuff like chia bread(chia is also awesome but ive never been able to get the seeds) which is gluten free and not as carb heavy, altho its crumbly as fuck it makes fuckin great toast.

i find cooking shit like brocolli in sauces and things like that can really bulk up my diet, and dont underestimate the amount of protein just floating around in normal food, you dont really need that much unless youre building muscle, and in that case Red8 soy protein doesnt taste all that yuck... (ok thats a lie its foul, just make sure you get the chocolate flavour) i guess youd say thats fairly processed, but on the other hand you can get quinoa flour from commonsense organics, use that stuff in baking, and as a thickener, its protein as, up to 20% which is comparable to meat.(processed meat is often as low as 5%) just make sure you eat your high protein foods after a workout and you cant really go wrong.
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Any Day Now » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:39 pm

Awesome, cheers Phil. Knew that quinoa was huge in calcium, but not in protein, which is awesome cause I actually like it! I'm also guessing that vital wheat gluton is big on protein too? Whenever I look up seitan on my calorie planner its always huge protein amounts.

Big trip to common sense planned. More advice please~

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby matt youwin » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:45 pm

Most of these are fairly obvious, but...

Chickpeas/lentils - awesome in pasta or curry
Falafel
Baked Beans
Tofu
Tempeh burgers are a great thing

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby cirE » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:20 pm

ALL YOU CAN EAT PHELPS DIET
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby SupaScoopa » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:23 pm

They sell Tempe at most supermarkets - the Tonzu brand in a green box..

You can make killer tempe burgers by sliceing it (kinda thin...bigger peices arnt as nice IMO).. pan fry it then brush with masterfoods satay sauce (vegan). YUM.

Handmade Burgers in kingsland make a killer Tempe burger with Plum sauce and salad, its off the hook.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Poo » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:24 pm

try this cool site , they will fix you up and theres a few NZ vegan athletes on there too
http://www.veganfitness.net

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Marrow » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:29 pm

uhm, the only thing i can suggest is rice/semolina.
boil it in soy milk until its like porridge, add a bit of sugar, and fruit.
I pretty much ate that for breakfast (w. dates and vanilla etc) for half a year when i was training. If you dont eat a stack of carbs your body just burns the protein off instead, which isnt good.
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Ventoux » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:38 pm

You don't really need that much protein so don't go out of your way to eat heaps of protein rich food. Depending on your level and type of training you'll want to have between 0.8 and 1.2 grams per body weight of protein per day.

Your body can't store protein so any more than that is pointless. Too much protein can also fuck up your kidneys and cause your body to leech calcium and shit. So yeah. Don't get suckered into high protein bullshit hype.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Ventoux » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:50 pm

Rob Anybody wrote: just make sure you eat your high protein foods after a workout and you cant really go wrong.


Eating carbs within an hour of working out (about .5 grams per kg of body weight) is really important for muscle recovery too. Straight after you stop training is also when your body is most receptive to replenish your body with the glycogen lost during your workout. Failing to replenish your glycogen ('usable' carbs) will mean your muscles will be fatigued or get fatigued quickly if you're training on a regular basis.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Any Day Now » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:09 am

Poo wrote:try this cool site , they will fix you up and theres a few NZ vegan athletes on there too
http://www.veganfitness.net



Cheers for the link, this site is fucking awesome! Big help.


ventoux wrote:You don't really need that much protein so don't go out of your way to eat heaps of protein rich food. Depending on your level and type of training you'll want to have between 0.8 and 1.2 grams per body weight of protein per day.

Your body can't store protein so any more than that is pointless. Too much protein can also fuck up your kidneys and cause your body to leech calcium and shit. So yeah. Don't get suckered into high protein bullshit hype.


Hahaha this makes me feel better, I guess i am working out between 40 and 90 mins a day, 6 days a week, it makes total sense that my body needs that many carbs, fuck the last few days I have been craving hard, I need to listen to my body :|

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Rob Anybody » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:24 pm

thing is candace, ive heard so many things from like, serious weightlifters that are almost a direct contradiction of that.

altho i actually tend more toward your view, i believe that high protein is appropriate when looking to build muscle mass rather than to simply keep it level.

ugh i just came back from getting a gym program and i can barely lift my arms above my head, and stupidly i havent eaten a thing, just veged out here for nearly 2 hours now.

now eating quinoa salad, cheese and cold potato
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Rob Anybody » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:26 pm

also, do not over look porridge, 10% protein, and the rest mostly carbs, excellent stuff.
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Marrow » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:32 pm

yeah. I eat tuna/salmon/chicken out of cans when I dont have time for anything else.
This morning was murder, haha, double length gym slot, so a good 2 hours of fucking my muscles over. (Although work made up for it with doing an epic pie-run right after :) )
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby niXon » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:33 pm

Just eat some battery hen eggs, be way heaps meaner than being vegan.
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Rob Anybody » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:02 pm

Marrow wrote:yeah. I eat tuna/salmon/chicken out of cans when I dont have time for anything else.
This morning was murder, haha, double length gym slot, so a good 2 hours of fucking my muscles over. (Although work made up for it with doing an epic pie-run right after :) )

i havnt been in a gym for like 10 years, im so not used to this shit, but i got myself a years membership and am gunna try and beat my rapidly aging body into some semblance of a sex object.

did some work on a tricep machine, i couldnt feel the strain hardly at all, but now thats the part that hurts the most haha.
snuff wrote:I hate the whole 'atheist' tag eh, It's not like we have a special name for people who don't believe in Santa, they're just adults.

Huey wrote:Trust me, I am ahead of the curve, you just don't realize it.

"I'm not sure about this one ... I think it's about coming of age, I cant remember much about because when it happened to me it was a long time ago. You could buy a packet of fags, a pint of beer and a three piece suit for half a crown and still have enough left to go and see Rudolf Valentino at the Gaumont! I can't afford to go to the pictures these days but I hear they talk in them now."

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Marrow » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:25 pm

hope it works for you. Gym memberships cost too much these days. The govt should subsidise that shit
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Brinn » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:23 pm

SupaScoopa wrote:They sell Tempe at most supermarkets - the Tonzu brand in a green box..


My neighbour makes it, and it is good :D

Go fix their computers every so often and get given a big shopping bag full of tofu and tempeh and stuff.

I've done a lot of looking into vegan training diets and stuff, but I'm too fucking lazy to do anything, so I'm just skinny. But from what I've read I'd make your diet as nutrient rich as you can too, rather than just bulking on plain protein/carbs (you obviously need them too though). Marrows soy milk/rice or semolina suggestion would probably be great for that, because they fortify most soymilk with a whole bunch of stuff.
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby the croc » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:47 am

When I was gyming a few years ago I would hit up Yellow Romans recipe for a protein shake when I got home. It's tasty as:

Yellow Romans wrote:This is a good one for when you're going to be doing something energetic, or as a recovery drink. I use a stick/prong blender for this as it seems to mix everything better than a bowl blender.

350 ml soya milk (11.2g protein, 22.1g carbohydrates, 770 kilojoules)
30g (3 heaped tablespoons) rolled oats (3.8g protein, 17g carbs, 480 kj)
20g (1 heaped tablespoon) ground almonds (4g protein, 4g carbs)
20g (1 tablespoon) peanut butter (5.8g protein, 1.8g carbs, 515 kj)
1 tablespoon flaxseed oil (0g protein, 0g carbs, 515 kj)
1 banana (1g protein, 23g carbs)
1 teaspoon drinking chocolate (0.7g protein, 13.4g carbs, 252 kj)

Total = 26.5g protein, 81.3g carbohydrates, 2,532 kilojoules
I couldn't find kj for the banana or ground almonds

Put the oats and ground almonds in a large blending cup and add 200ml soya milk. Allow to stand a few minutes for the oats to absorb the milk, then add the peanut butter, banana, flaxseed oil and drinking chocolate. Use the stick blender to blend it into a thick mush, then add the rest of the milk. It's easiest to get the oats blended right down if you blend it in this order rather than just tipping all the milk in at once.

The oats give it a bit of a grainy texture which may take a bit of getting used to, so you can always start off with 1 tablespoon first time.
For variation you can add some amaranth or quinoa flakes as well.
You don't have to add oil, but flaxseed oil provides omega 3 fats. Olive oil or canola oil will do so as well, but be aware that 50% of the world's canola crop is GMO so you may want to avoid that.
Sometimes I put in 200ml or so of coconut cream in at the beginning instead of soya milk if I have had a busy day as it provides way more kj
100ml coconut cream = 2.5g protein, 2.6g carbs and 1011 kj.
You can add all sorts of crap to a smoothie. If you want to find out the nutritional content of the ingredients then go to http://www.elook.org/nutrition/


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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby the croc » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:49 am

Rob Anybody wrote:thing is candace, ive heard so many things from like, serious weightlifters that are almost a direct contradiction of that.

altho i actually tend more toward your view, i believe that high protein is appropriate when looking to build muscle mass rather than to simply keep it level.


Yeah totally agree with that. If you want to build muscle mass and strength, which would be appropriate for rowing then protein intake is important. Carbs and fat intake is also important.

This protein calculator is pretty useful as a rough guide to how much your daily protein intake should be: http://www.healthcalculators.org/calcul ... rotein.asp
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Marrow » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:50 am

mean calculator. 120g protein minimum though? ouch, haha... Although eating meat 3-4 meals a day probably covers that.
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Ventoux » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:12 am

I don't know.. I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve. According to that calculator I should have 75g of protein daily. I have about 50 max on a good day as well as somewhere between 200-300+g of carbs depending on how much training I do. I know I've definitely gained a decent amount of muscle mass in the last 2 years since I started training on a daily basis but I only do cycling so it's predominantly just leg muscles. Whilst most of my clothes from a year ago are now way too big and baggy, my stovepipe jeans don't fit over my quads anymore :P

As far as muscle fatigue/recovery goes, I've found not eating carbs after training is the worst possible thing. It makes a huge difference to how you feel the next day and if you're training on a daily basis that is imperative. Not enough carbs = low glycogen = muscle fatigue = can't train good because you feel like mud.

I just stress that point because so many people are under the (wrong) perception that all carbs are bad and make you fat bla bla bla.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Marrow » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:02 pm

heh, true that.
complex carbs are all good. I work with one guy who just eats sugar, literally. But he's a bit nuts. But cereal is good. could pretty much just live off rice and cereal
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby The Real JeffJack. » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:08 pm

Any Day Now wrote:Ok, so after 5 years of debauchery to my body, I've started exercising and eating properly etc etc.

At this stage I'm looking to get my body ready to compete in two sports, Rowing and Kick boxing, but I'm finding that with a vegan diet my calorie intake consists of half carbs and 25% each of protein and fats. Obviously I'm looking to really boost my protein intake for muscle growth (and just plain health really) without eating too many processed foods. As much as i love huge amounts of green beans, I need something a bit more exciting. Oh and can anyone recommend where to get (or make) tempeh from?

Would really appreciate any advice from some vegan sports peoples please!



Damn I wrote out a killer mix up for you, then I saw Vegan, you will never get full results as eatting meat for your body, however some Vegan body builders do get pretty huge though.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Any Day Now » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:37 pm

Wow some heaps mean advice, also good to just hear peoples different opinions on various things.


Those shakes look mean.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby The Real JeffJack. » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:56 pm


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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby ruff » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:51 pm

http://www.wheygoldstandard.com/

The No.1 Whey Protein in the world.

I eat 6 times a day - Protein consumption 2-3g per kg of bodyweight so anywhere from 190g to 255g+ a day spread out through my meals. Carbs are easily double this with fats making up the rest (unsaturated from things like Olive Oil, Avocados, Nuts etc).

My three shakes a day consist of:

1 Scoop ON 100% Whey Gold Standard Protein
1 Cup Rolled Oats
2 x Size 7 full Eggs
250ml reduced fat Milk

Lots of water to - currently at about 5 - 6 litres a day but this isn't quite enough. Im still retaining a little so I need to up that another 2 litres or so. When Im pissing every half hour I know Im getting enough.

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby the croc » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:38 am

I suppose the other thing to note is different eating regimes produce different results. A bodybuilding diet is different to a weightlifting diet which is different to a fitness diet.

I'm definitely no expert but by the look of things Ruff are you mainly bodybuilding?

Also Any Day Now, I'm not sure how relevant this is to your kickboxing but have you seen any of Bruce Lee's series of training manuals before? His daily routines are insane but could be helpful for leg speed and strength.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruce-Lees-Fighting-Method-Techniques/dp/0897500539/ref=pd_sim_b_1
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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby ruff » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:04 pm

Different eating regimes?

You must eat regularly, your body needs a constant supply of good food if you are even the slightest bit serious about your training.

Why is it that Punkas is full of people giving advice when the closet they have come to any real world experience is reading about it in a book?

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Re: Advice for a training diet?

Postby Any Day Now » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:19 pm

the croc wrote:I suppose the other thing to note is different eating regimes produce different results. A bodybuilding diet is different to a weightlifting diet which is different to a fitness diet.

I'm definitely no expert but by the look of things Ruff are you mainly bodybuilding?

Also Any Day Now, I'm not sure how relevant this is to your kickboxing but have you seen any of Bruce Lee's series of training manuals before? His daily routines are insane but could be helpful for leg speed and strength.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruce-Lees-Fighting-Method-Techniques/dp/0897500539/ref=pd_sim_b_1



Absolutely, that looks worth checking out, cheers for the link, I could always use more leg speed in my life, and that also compliments the strength I need in legs for skulling.

At this stage I'm not looking to bulk up excessively. I'm wanting to be strong, fit and very toned, but being a girl I don't want to look more masculine than my boyfriend. I'm still on a lowish calorie diet to trim away a little bit more fat, but I'm finding that, as I knew they inevitability always were going to, my boobs are really starting to shrink hahah, which I'm not so happy about, so I might bring my calorie intake up a little, I've also weirdly lost about 5kg in 2 weeks, which has kinda freaked me out. I've put it down to the high impact strength training I've been starting every day with.......


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