Morality and not eat animal products

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Ph!1
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Postby Ph!1 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:05 pm

yeh thats it really.

i know im a hypocrite cos i eat meat.. more so recently too...

i do it cos its a convinent source of protein and i dont find heavy work easier if i forgo it.

sicinius is the same as me in that respect, except that he lifts weights, burns up all that protein and animals for the sake of his beauty.

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Postby Huey » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:35 am

Vegetarians could bulk easy with the aid of whey protein.

You could probably do pretty much as well on soy protein, provided the rest of your protein and carbs didnt come from soy.

This is assuming the phytoestrogens in soy are significantly detrimental to putting on lean mass, if not than I really I cant see a reason a vegan couldn’t do just as well with a planned out diet.
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Postby Horus » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:25 am

Vegans can do just fine on the bulking / strength front.

The meat-guzzling farmer puffs along behind his ox with the plow, as he informs you that "you have to eat meat to get the strength!", while his toiling and muscular (vegetarian) ox does the hard work.

And around 1908, there was a serious campaign to get the Int Olympic Committee to ban vegetarian athletes, on the grounds that they had an "unfair advantage" over the meaties, coz of their superior diet!!

There have been numerous winners of the Ironman and other strength events down the years who were vegan or vegetarian. PM me if you'd like a free book on this (save me quoting it all here!)

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Postby Ph!1 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:38 am

King Leonidas wrote:Vegetarians could bulk easy with the aid of whey protein.

You could probably do pretty much as well on soy protein, provided the rest of your protein and carbs didnt come from soy.

This is assuming the phytoestrogens in soy are significantly detrimental to putting on lean mass, if not than I really I cant see a reason a vegan couldn’t do just as well with a planned out diet.


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Re: Morality and not eat animal products

Postby kittenslayer » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:39 am

Gnawsea wrote:It’s not often I come across an omnivore when the subject is brought up who says “Yeah, the meat industry is pretty fucked up and wrong, but I eat meat anyway simply because I like the taste of it / going vegetarian/vegan would be too much of an effort for me.” Most of them seem to be full of shit excuses.

Thanks for spelling my philosophy out :P

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Postby Shitwolf » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:21 pm

in my opinion this is almost, but not as bad as the whole christo preaching trying to save the poor lost souls and the atheists of this world bashing the christos for having beliefs.

differnt morals differnt values different ways of life. full fucking stop.

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Postby /// » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:59 pm

Amoses wrote:in my opinion this is almost, but not as bad as the whole christo preaching trying to save the poor lost souls and the atheists of this world bashing the christos for having beliefs.

differnt morals differnt values different ways of life. full fucking stop.


Christianity and Atheism doesn't involve breeding living beings and treating them like shit before killing them for human consumption. As a meat-eater, your beliefs and views are costing lives. As a Christian or an Atheist, they (generally) are not.

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Postby Red_switch » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:20 pm

Yes, they are. Religion = huge loss of life.
I think it's lint.

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Postby Future Shock » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:52 pm

if this system was gone, mass industrial farming would stop and be able to be controlled and people would find it less lovely/necessary/easy to eat meat.

why do vegans always say, but it doesn't matter, save the animals? that's just like buying meat to me so divide and conquer does not maketh real progress.

some of us think and others well, they're fucked.

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Postby Red_switch » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:51 pm

phaedrus wrote:meat eating requires death
religion does not

try again


no
I think it's lint.

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Postby Red_switch » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:52 pm

Future Shock wrote:if this system was gone, mass industrial farming would stop and be able to be controlled and people would find it less lovely/necessary/easy to eat meat.

why do vegans always say, but it doesn't matter, save the animals? that's just like buying meat to me so divide and conquer does not maketh real progress.

some of us think and others well, they're fucked.


if this system was gone I'd find it a lot easier and probably more fun to raise and kill a calf to make mince than to grow chickpeas and make felafel.
I think it's lint.

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Postby PertHJ » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:11 am

Horus wrote:The meat-guzzling farmer puffs along behind his ox with the plow, as he informs you that "you have to eat meat to get the strength!", while his toiling and muscular (vegetarian) ox does the hard work.


funny I would have taken you as one of the people who think vivisection is wrong because humans are biologically different to other animals.... :P
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Postby PertHJ » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:14 am

Horus wrote:The meat-guzzling farmer puffs along behind his ox with the plow, as he informs you that "you have to eat meat to get the strength!", while his toiling and muscular (vegetarian) ox does the hard work.


funny I would have taken you as one of the people who think vivisection is wrong because humans are biologically different to other animals.... :P
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Postby FC » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:39 am

I guess the moral issue comes down to whether you view animal life as equal to or important as human life.

If you do, you are probably a vegan or vege, if you dont, well I guess you can morally be whatever you like.



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Postby LegDog » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:39 am

Hell no, all inferior species must be SLAUGHTERED :twisted:
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Postby Shitwolf » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:43 am

thats why i said but not as bad as.. yes i understand that eating meat involves killing in pretty inhuman ways. what i think is stink is the constant fights people get involved in over shit like this. which was why i brought in religion. telling someone that they are morally flawed because of there food choice is not going to help the cause at all. there are far more productive things you can do to help your cause than insult peoples morality because they choose to eat meat( which also i get that the average vegan/vegy take part in, rad!!). at the end of the day (they way i understand this plight) the problem isnt the consumption of meat, its the way these animals are being treated. would you be happy if people did still eat meat but they ways(or even quanities) we get meat where more acceptable. or do we want none at all??

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Postby FC » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:33 pm

phaedrus wrote:it's entirely possible to believe animals are far 'inferior' to humans and still see the wisdom in not killing them and eating them :)


Oh of course, then it comes down to whether you think they are here for us, or with us I suppose.


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Postby FC » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:54 pm

Maybe I didnt explain that as well as I should have.

Whether you believe we have the right to farm animals for consumption, or go out into the wild and kill animals, or whether you believe that we should respect their right to live as we should know better.



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Postby LegDog » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:02 pm

Because we can't survive without them.

Hey, wait...
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Postby Ph!1 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:58 pm

FC wrote:
phaedrus wrote:it's entirely possible to believe animals are far 'inferior' to humans and still see the wisdom in not killing them and eating them :)


Oh of course, then it comes down to whether you think they are here for us, or with us I suppose.


Aidan


you mean whether or not you think god put them here for us.

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Postby Future Shock » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:09 pm

yes redswitch and you were just being disagreeable cause i agreed with you so i'll disagree to agree so we're equal.

but a 'civil' society would also find it easier to control real pyschopathic animal abuse as well but freedom would still reighn.

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Postby Ph!1 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:13 pm

Future Shock wrote:yes redswitch and you were just being disagreeable cause i agreed with you so i'll disagree to agree so we're equal.


yeh ay, everything is about you.

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Postby FC » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:20 pm

Race Traitor wrote:
you mean whether or not you think god put them here for us.


Well I was thinking it more of a "as the most intelligent beings, and by putting us at the top of the food chain, we can do what we like with everything less than us" but that argument applies equally well if thats what you believe I suppose.



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Postby Future Shock » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:23 pm

yes it is traitor, right back at ya kid and i was replying to them being disagreable to me and missing my point completely and even perhaps twisting it to make the discussion go elsewhere that does not pertain which would make this discussion pointless, woof!

go hit yaself.

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Postby PertHJ » Tue May 01, 2007 6:38 am

phaedrus wrote:why shouldn't we respect an animals right to life? because we are stronger/more violent?


because we're more intelligent silly
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Postby FC » Tue May 01, 2007 11:27 am

Oh, I completely agree. Thats why I said that the whole "intelligence" thing is debateable, considering if the world ends, its probably going to be our fault.


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Postby Sicinius » Tue May 01, 2007 12:33 pm

Didn't know self-preservation was a sound grounds for establishing intelligence.
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Postby PertHJ » Tue May 01, 2007 12:39 pm

well it's a key factor for the darwin awards.
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Postby the croc » Tue May 01, 2007 1:13 pm

phaedrus wrote:
Sicinius wrote:Didn't know self-preservation was a sound grounds for establishing intelligence.


Self-preservation beyond a standard fight-or-flight response would tend to suggest some form of awareness...


But then how do you define a standard fight-or-flight response?
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Postby Sicinius » Tue May 01, 2007 1:22 pm

phaedrus wrote:
Sicinius wrote:Didn't know self-preservation was a sound grounds for establishing intelligence.


Self-preservation beyond a standard fight-or-flight response would tend to suggest some form of awareness...


Cows are smarter than us because we create landfills and pollute.
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